To Gel or Not to Gel?

[shunt2011]

Thank you shunt :razz:

Is a partial gel bad?

Nope, just cosmetic. It will generally lighten up over time and sometimes you can't even tell. If you get partial gel you'll see a round section in the middle of your soap that is darker when you cut it.

Always be sure to zap test your soap to make sure it's not lye heavy. If gelling wait 24 or so hours and if not gelling it may take longer.

 

[lenarenee]

A gelled soap can be unmolded and cut sooner than ungelled. I've had ungelled soap need 2 to 3 days out of the freezer before I could unmold.

I prefer ungelled because the feel and look of the bar is creamier, I also think they lather quicker and perhaps a little better than gelled.

But they are definitely both soap! :

 

[bhelen]

I'm confused about the ash thing. Some are saying they prefer to gel to prevent ash, and some are saying they prefer not to gel to prevent ash. I don't gel most of my soaps and have had variable ash results. Can't put my finger on what makes it worse.

 

[IrishLass]

Whether 'tis nobler to gel or not to gel really just depends on your personal preference, for in the end it's all good soap anyway.

I like to gel all my soaps, although I oftentimes pour off a small portion of some of my batches into individual, Milkyway--type molds just to observe how things such as colorants and scents behave in an un-gelled state.

The link that Ngian provided in post #15 shows that the main difference between gelled and ungelled soap (at least performance-wise) seems to be how they react in water. The experiment done in the link shows that gelled soaps retain their shape better and get less mushy in water when compared to soaps that did not gel, although the difference may be so small to some soapers that it might not matter much to them.

Off the top of my head, the reasons that I like to gel are these:

-I can unmold and cut and stamp my bars much earlier
-I get little to no ash formation on my bars
-My colors turn out much richer (i.e., much less pastel-looking)


IrishLass

 

[IrishLass]

I'm confused about the ash thing. Some are saying they prefer to gel to prevent ash, and some are saying they prefer not to gel to prevent ash. I don't gel most of my soaps and have had variable ash results. Can't put my finger on what makes it worse.

I can't speak for everyone else, but my own un-gelled soaps are notorious for ashing- sometimes, quite terribly so (very thick ash). But my gelled soaps very rarely ever get ash. If they do, it's just a very light sprinkling there and there that's easily removed with a damp washcloth.

Dr. Kevin Dunn has an excellent chapter on ash in his book Scientific Soapmaking. He says that there are at least 3 different causes of ash forming on soap:

1) Sodium Carbonate: As raw soap is left uncovered, any as-of-yet unreacted sodium hydroxide in the soap will rise to the top and deposit itself on the surface of the soap as the water evaporates. As the sodium hydroxide sits there on the surface, it reacts with the carbon dioxide in the air and forms sodium carbonate.

2) Soap crystals that have separated themselves from the main body of soap.

3) Some other water-soluble material that gets deposited on the surface of the soap (most likely from an additive that was used in ones' soap formula)

If you have the book, the info can be found starting at page 249.

However, if you don't have his book, here is an article from Lovin Soap who writes about Kevin Dunn's lecture that he gave on the subject of ash at the 2011 HMSG conference:

http://www.lovinsoap.com/2011/05/secret-life-soap-kevin-dunn-2011-hsmg-conference/


And I also found a recent thread right here on the forum that helps to explain it:

http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46697


HTH!
IrishLass

 

[bhelen]

Thank you so much Irish lass! I'm off to do some reading.

 

[claryza]

So in ungel soaps takes longer time to unmold? But after 24 hours in freezer can take out?

 

[lillybella]

This was a great discussion!
Thank you.

un-gel - goes in freezer
gel - wrap up & cover for 24 hours

 

[lenarenee]

Yes, and ungelled soap takes longer to get firm enough to unmold and cut.

Yes, a freshly made soap can be put in the freezer for 24 hours to prevent gel, then removed. However, I would let it sit another 1 - 3 days....testing it to see if it's ready to unmold. Any soap I've put in the freezer, needs more than 2 days before unmolding.

By the way, not every soap needs to be frozen to prevent gel. Most of mine
don't gel if I simply leave them uncovered sitting on a shelf. (I use 2 lb silicone molds) I check them often, and it they seem to be heating up...I either let them, or stick them in the freezer.

 

[claryza]

I think it depends on your climate too. Mine is hot so it gels without being insulated. Even if I put them in non ac room

 

[claryza]

I was wondering whether you need to cover up ungel soap in freezer? Few of my ungel soap that I put in freezer for 24hours. They sweat and then turn soft. Is this how ungelled soap works?

 

[Ruthie]

I do both, though most of my soaps are ungelled. The reason is overheating.. I have a lot of trouble with it because I use a lot of goat's milk. If I wrap, I get a split on the top when it overheats. If I leave unwrapped I get partial gel. Can't seem to reach that happy medium. So I just don't gel. I do not use the freezer, but leave my soaps in the fridge for 48 hours.

 

[Lion Of Judah]

I was wondering whether you need to cover up ungel soap in freezer? Few of my ungel soap that I put in freezer for 24hours. They sweat and then turn soft. Is this how ungelled soap works?

that is normal , because you stop the heating up process by putting them in the freezer so along the way you me get a little frozen condensation on top and the water[liquid] content inside freezes so when you remove it from the freezer it thaws out [ defrost ] and may feel soft depending on your recipe . that is not a problem , it needs to cure and harden up . after a few hours out of the freezer just go ahead cut it in bars and set it in a nice dry warm place to cure for 4-6 weeks , check on them every couple of days or so to see how they are doing

 

[Shaefercd]

I personally gel all my soaps. I just add a bit of TD to my soap batter to make it a bit lighter as I do use some kind of milk in all my recipes

Shunt, what is TD? I make goats milk soaps and am curious.

 

[newbie]

Titanium dioxide- used to whiten soap

 

[claryza]

@lion of judah because few of my soaps after I get it out of the freezer it doesnt harden up enough to be cut that day

 

[Shaefercd]

Titanium dioxide- used to whiten soap

Thanks Newbie

 

[Cactuslily]

Oliveoil2, you mentioned you wouldn't gel with HDPE molds. I'm curious what the reason behind this is? I ask, because I ordered a mold from Soaphutch which I should be getting soon. I've never used a mold with this material, but I'm pretty sure this mold won't fit in the freezer. I'm not even sure it will fit into my refrigerator. This was a great thread on to gel or not to gel. Thanks for everyone's input!

 

[Chefmom]

Oliveoil2, you mentioned you wouldn't gel with HDPE molds. I'm curious what the reason behind this is? I ask, because I ordered a mold from Soaphutch which I should be getting soon. I've never used a mold with this material, but I'm pretty sure this mold won't fit in the freezer. I'm not even sure it will fit into my refrigerator. This was a great thread on to gel or not to gel. Thanks for everyone's input!

I'm also curious about the reasoning with not gelling the HDPE molds. I use them and have gelled with them. Not forcing with the oven or anything, but just by insulating inside a cardboard box and towel wrapping. I have never had any issues with my HDPE molds, hot process or cold process. Gel or freezer.

However, they are not "no liner needed" I do not line them when I am using hot process, but I have read where people have issues with cold process sticking to HDPE molds, so I lined them from the start...just as insurance.

I love mine..so easy to store taken apart...pop together tight, and clean up like a dream.

 

[Cactuslily]

In the video I saw their use in, they weren't lined. According to the website they don't need lining. This concerns me because lining is not something I want to do :-( I don't HP either. Do you need a rubber mallet as shown in soaphutch video to put together? At any rate, hopefully someone else will add to the gelling thing, as well as the lining of these molds. Thanks for replying!