Thoughts on a recipe for shaving soap

[RødgrødMedFløde]

Hi, I was hoping to get some thoughts on a shaving recipe I've been playing around with. I think I saw a different lye calculator you guys recommended, but I have been using the one from soapee Just because it's the only one I can access from my computer at work since IT has us pretty limited.

My primary concerns are coming from the point of view of a wet shaver. I tried to incorporate ingredients I typically see on some of my favorite artisan shaving soaps (declaration grooming, Phoenix artesional accoutrements, noble otter, etc.).

I would really like my final product to be a "croap." To those not familiar with the term in the wet shaving world, I want to soap that has the consistency of peanut butter. Maybe slightly firmer, but not by much. Something that's firm enough that it can be brush lathered in the container to load the brush but soft enough that it can be scooped out with a finger to rub a layer in the bottom of a bowl to lather. I'm starting with a KOH I'm 80% and an NaOH of 20% to try to achieve this.

Here's a picture from the lye calculator with my ingredient list and amounts. Does anybody have any thoughts? Suggestions? I'm totally open!

 

[AliOop]

I'm not a shave soap expert by any means, but I have heard general guidelines of getting your stearic number up to 50 if possible. We have some good shave soap threads here on SMF that give a lot of great details. I've learned much from @Professor Bernardo and from Carrie Siebert's shave soap book.

Regarding the lye calculator, you can download the Soapmaking Friend app on your phone. That way, there is no need to use the work computer.

 

[RødgrødMedFløde]

I'm not a shave soap expert by any means, but I have heard general guidelines of getting your stearic number up to 50 if possible. We have some good shave soap threads here on SMF that give a lot of great details. I've learned much from @Professor Bernardo and from Carrie Siebert's shave soap book.

Regarding the lye calculator, you can download the Soapmaking Friend app on your phone. That way, there is no need to use the work computer.

Awesome! Love the tip! Getting the stearic above 50 should be a pretty easy tweak, I will work on that ASAP!
Book is ordered. App is downloaded.
I only use the work computer because of downtime and printer access lol
Thanks for the tips! In your experience, should that hire ratio of KOH give me a soft enough soap? The hardness number on the calculator is kind of high, but it doesn't really change when I adjust the KOH/NaOH ratio, so I'm wondering if the high KOH will give me that peanut butter consistency I'm looking for.

 

[artemis]

Or, you can use your soap calculator of choice from the browser on your phone.

 

[RødgrødMedFløde]

Or, you can use your soap calculator of choice from the browser on your phone.

No worries! I promise I'm not technologically disabled! Maybe I should have got more depth into my explanation that it makes it easier to multitask soap calculating and working when it's on my computer at work. Not that I couldn't look down at my phone and use it, soap calculating on my work computer just allows me more time to mess around with recipes.

 

[AliOop]

Awesome! Love the tip! Getting the stearic above 50 should be a pretty easy tweak, I will work on that ASAP!
Book is ordered. App is downloaded.
I only use the work computer because of downtime and printer access lol
Thanks for the tips! In your experience, should that hire ratio of KOH give me a soft enough soap? The hardness number on the calculator is kind of high, but it doesn't really change when I adjust the KOH/NaOH ratio, so I'm wondering if the high KOH will give me that peanut butter consistency I'm looking for.

The soap calc numbers aren’t as helpful when making a KOH soap. The more predictive metrics will come from your FA profile, your KOH-to-NaOH ratio, and how those two play together in your chosen recipe. Not having made that specific recipe myself, it’s at best a guesstimate on my part to say it appears to have potential to achieve what you want.

How is that for waffle-y legalese? Seriously though, I’d give it a try, perhaps making micro-batches like @Johnez did in his shave soap experiment thread.

 

[RødgrødMedFløde]

The soap calc numbers aren’t as helpful when making a KOH soap. The more predictive metrics will come from your FA profile, your KOH-to-NaOH ratio, and how those two play together in your chosen recipe. Not having made that specific recipe myself, it’s at best a guesstimate on my part to say it appears to have potential to achieve what you want.

How is that for waffle-y legalese? Seriously though, I’d give it a try, perhaps making micro-batches like @Johnez did in his shave soap experiment thread.

That's fantastic feedback, it definitely makes sense. I'll look into microbatching as well!

I really appreciate you taking the time!

 

[user 49910]

You have a nearly 1 to 1 oils to water ratio. Should work, will take a long time to saponify. Basically you're making a cream soap, or "croap" as you're calling it. Upping the KOH percentage will make a softer, more pasty soap in the beginning, but it will eventually get more solid. The soap "might" reach the semi-firm consistency of peanut butter, but I doubt it. I dallied around with it about 18 mos. ago and it came out a semi-solid, that is it would be solid in the jar but once I stuck my finger in it, it would become semi-soft. Much like the way rendered fat feels when refrigerated.

I had to take a hand mixer using those cheap dough hooks and mixing a LONG time to reach the consistency, more or less, of what I was looking for. The drawback is that the longevity of the end product suffers greatly.
The longevity of the end product suffers greatly. The soaps you are trying to emulate have a lot of nut butters in them, plus jojoba oil.

IMHO, I just find it simpler easier to make a high quality firm soap in a jar that lasts a long time. Even though the "artisan" soaps you mentioned claimed to be handmade, they are using high end processing equipment to make large batches, which allow them to control the temperatures and blending processes better. It was RazorRock's XXX Italian Shave Soap I tried to emulate which started me down that rabbit hole. It had a slightly soft feel with a very white translucent look to it.

 

[RødgrødMedFløde]

You have a nearly 1 to 1 oils to water ratio. Should work, will take a long time to saponify. Basically you're making a cream soap, or "croap" as you're calling it. Upping the KOH percentage will make a softer, more pasty soap in the beginning, but it will eventually get more solid. The soap "might" reach the semi-firm consistency of peanut butter, but I doubt it. I dallied around with it about 18 mos. ago and it came out a semi-solid, that is it would be solid in the jar but once I stuck my finger in it, it would become semi-soft. Much like the way rendered fat feels when refrigerated.

I had to take a hand mixer using those cheap dough hooks and mixing a LONG time to reach the consistency, more or less, of what I was looking for. The drawback is that the longevity of the end product suffers greatly.
The longevity of the end product suffers greatly. The soaps you are trying to emulate have a lot of nut butters in them, plus jojoba oil.

IMHO, I just find it simpler easier to make a high quality firm soap in a jar that lasts a long time. Even though the "artisan" soaps you mentioned claimed to be handmade, they are using high end processing equipment to make large batches, which allow them to control the temperatures and blending processes better. It was RazorRock's XXX Italian Shave Soap I tried to emulate which started me down that rabbit hole. It had a slightly soft feel with a very white translucent look to it.

Honestly, since my original post at the beginning of the month, I am about 20 versions in with 12 of them trialed

I am currently utilizing several butters (Shea, cocoa, kokum, mango) as well as jojoba that you mentioned.

I have high hopes for the two most recent batches, but, you know... Cure times... Plus dialing in the KOH/NaOH ratio.

I'm planning on not stopping until I have something up there with the best of the best 'elite' soaps! Obviously, I'm not jumping into the large scale equipment that you mentioned, but based on my current progress, it looks like I might be able to pull it off!

 

[user 49910]

I wish you good luck in your endeavors.

 

[Nav]

Honestly, since my original post at the beginning of the month, I am about 20 versions in with 12 of them trialed

I am currently utilizing several butters (Shea, cocoa, kokum, mango) as well as jojoba that you mentioned.

I have high hopes for the two most recent batches, but, you know... Cure times... Plus dialing in the KOH/NaOH ratio.

I'm planning on not stopping until I have something up there with the best of the best 'elite' soaps! Obviously, I'm not jumping into the large scale equipment that you mentioned, but based on my current progress, it looks like I might be able to pull it off!

The more solid butters and soy wax I use, the harder the soap. Liquid oils will contribute softness.
Also, the higher the saturated fats, the harder the soap.
I personally stick with 70% KoH as I feel it's high enough for stearic acid solubility, and not so high that the soap loads into the brush too easily, causing overloading.
Higher super fat will lead to a slightly tacky soap but that is irrelevant as it's not a bath soap and will remain in a container for its life. I like how gentle a shaving soap with 6-8% super fat is. It's really very nice to my skin!
I make veggie soaps only and derive stearic/palmitic from soy wax and seed butters.
I am a big believer in curing of soap so I cure my soap for 3 months before I use it!