Thinking about making shaving soap but have questions

[Desirae]

Good afternoon. I have a few questions. I've been making cp soap now for at few months at and my soap has been coming out perfect, my hubby loves it. Well this last weekend he asked me to make him some shaving soap to try, so on Sat I ordered from amazon a container of koh lye. The thread I found the person shared there pictures and i read that soap calc and soapee calc will not give you a recipe bc it will not allow you to choose both potassium and sodium hydroxide. And they did it hp, hp looks to complicated to me so I do everything cp. So I was hoping you can give me some advice. The koh was delivered today, and I do have a bag of stearic acid as I use it for my in shower Moisturizer. So my questions are..
1. How long does the shaving soap have to cure for before it can be used?

2. Is it made the same way as cp soap is made? Melt my oils mix my lye solution and let it cool to 100 degrees, add to oils and use stick blender ( have no clue what the process is)

3. I read somewhere in another post your to add Glycerin after its been emulsified ( what's the purpose of using Glycerin?)

4. Can you direct me to a good website or any threads on here with step by step directions on what to do or you tube video or would you be willing to give me the steps?

I've read some areas on this site that the shaving soap is made into a bar, but then I saw a recipe on soap queen that requires you to put the shaving soap in jars, so if it's a bar how can it fit into a jar? And since using both types of lye does this make for a very soft Soap bar or does it actually get to the consistency of actual shaving cream you buy in store that's in the canisters?

I'd like if it's possible to try and make it like actual shaving cream if that's possible le, but if the soap brush is needed to put on the face to shave I would imagine it's closer to a bar of soap then shaving cream.

5. Would you be willing to give me a very basic recipe to try so I can determine if this is something I want to make more often or decide if it's just not for me to make?

I'm so sorry for my long post but I can't seem to really find any of my answers on smf especially my question about curing time frames.
Thank you
Desirae

 

[shunt2011]

There's a great shave soap thread on her. Unfortunately I can't link it as I'm on my iPad. You will want to do it HP. The amount that f stearic needed for shave soap makes it impossible to do CP. It's the only time I do HP. It needs to cure just like CP though he could give it a try sooner. I add my glycerin and SF after the cook.

 

[doriettefarm]

Pretty sure this is the thread Shari was referring to http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264&highlight=shave+soap

It's a monster read but well worth the time. If you're using stearic and dual lye I would definitely HP.

 

[shunt2011]

Pretty sure this is the thread Shari was referring to http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=34264&highlight=shave+soap

It's a monster read but well worth the time. If you're using stearic and dual lye I would definitely HP.

It is, thank you!! It's an excellent read even though it's lengthy. Great shave soap too.

 

[DeeAnna]

... soap calc and soapee calc will not give you a recipe bc it will not allow you to choose both potassium and sodium hydroxide.

Soapcalc doesn't allow a dual lye soap, but Soapee most certainly does. Look for "hybrid soap" in Section 1.

And they did it hp, hp looks to complicated...

Most soapers do this type of soap with a hot process method due to the use of a fatty acid (stearic acid) rather than all fats. A fatty acid reacts almost instantly with the lye, so HP is the only practical way. Perhaps it's time to expand your soaping horizons a bit?

1. How long does the shaving soap have to cure for before it can be used?

Same as any other soap. Soap is safe to use as long as it does not zap, but many people including me think a shave soap needs 4-6 weeks minimum for best performance and least chance of irritation. You will find the lather will improve during that time.

2. Is it made the same way as cp soap is made?

No, you need to make it with a hot process method. The shave soap thread mentioned above has info. Also Lee Bussey has a tutorial here: http://www.silverfoxcrafts.com/shaving-soap/

3. I read somewhere in another post your to add Glycerin after its been emulsified ( what's the purpose of using Glycerin?)

Glycerin has several purposes.

The added glycerin makes up for the glycerin that is not created when you saponify a fatty acid (stearic acid) rather than a fat. Glycerin soothes the skin. The glycerin helps to create a dense, long lasting lather. It also can function as a "processing aid" so the soap is not so stiff and hard to stir when making and molding the soap.

4. Can you direct me to a good website or any threads on here with step by step directions on what to do or you tube video or would you be willing to give me the steps?

See above. Kevin Devine also has videos on YouTube that may be helpful.

...so if it's a bar how can it fit into a jar?

It doesn't. You choose the consistency of the soap and package it acordingly. You can make a hard shave soap bar or a soft shave soap or a paste-like shave soap "croap". The last two are often put in jars or bowls. The first can be packaged just like a regular bar soap.

...does it actually get to the consistency of actual shaving cream you buy in store that's in the canisters?

No. Shave soap in a canister is an aerosol product. You aren't going to get a fluffy aerated foam from a non-aerosol soap unless you manually whip the air into it (like with a shave brush).

5. Would you be willing to give me a very basic recipe to try...

See Lee's tutorial or the recipe given in the thread Shari and Doriettefarm have mentioned.

 

[Desirae]

Thank you all for all that wonderful information, especially Deanna for answering literally every one of my questions. You all were most informative and I will most definitely be reading all those links you posted so I can have a clear understanding on what to do so I can do it right,

Just a few last questions, I read about using a crock pot to do the hp, do I have to use a crock pot to do it in or can I use a stock pot?

I heard the term "cook" in the thread I read earlier, what exactly does that mean? I know I'm an idiot but like I said I've been doing cp this whole time

Thank-you all again for all the info

 

[doriettefarm]

I've never attempted HP using anything other than a crockpot but I think it could be done with a stock pot. You might have to babysit more to maintain proper temps which is why I choose the crockpot. The one I have doubles as a deep fryer so you can set the temp at x degrees instead of just warm-low-high settings. The cooking part doesn't take very long . . . you're really just maintaining the temp to a point where the stearic acid remains melted so it doesn't immediately seize. The added heat will also speed up saponification so the soap will pass the zap test quicker.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...do I have to use a crock pot to do it in or can I use a stock pot?..."

I don't use a crock pot for shave soap -- I always make it in a saucepan on the stove. The one thing -- you CANNOT walk away from the soap while it's being heated directly on the stove, unlike making soap in a crockpot. I don't cook my soap for hours, so it's not a problem for me to babysit the soap until it's done. And if I have to leave unexpectedly, it's no big deal to just turn off the heat, cover the pan to reduce evaporation, and take off for as long as need be.

I don't think you will need a stock pot to make shave soap -- I normally use a 2 or 3 quart saucepan to make a batch using 500 grams of fat (about 1 pound). That makes a ~lot~ of shave soap for a hobbyist.

HP soap is made just like CP soap with a few key differences --

Use a little more water to keep the soap softer and more stir-able while it's being heated. I set the lye concentration to 25% when creating an HP soap recipe.

No need to cool the lye before adding it to the warmed oils. You're just going to heat the soap batter during "the cook", so there's no benefit to cooling the lye, unlike when you do CP.

"The cook" is exactly what it sounds like -- a time when the soap batter is being gently heated. I don't try to heat the soap batter too hot -- 160 to 180 degrees F is enough. The heat causes the saponification reaction to happen quicker.

There are as many methods of cooking soap as there are soapers. Some cook for a long time, but I don't. I will cook shave soap batter for about 30 minutes and then very, very carefully test for zap. If there's still a zap, I'll cook for 15 more minutes and retest. Repeat until it's done. My shave soap is usually fine at 30 minutes. Then add any special ingredients -- superfat, scent, extra glycerin, etc. -- and then the soap can be molded or put into jars.

The shave soap I make is very sticky and waxy, so I will form it into a rough log on waxed paper or freezer paper and let it cool and dry for a day or so. I then roll it by hand into a smoother looking log. (This is a lot like making refrigerator cookies, if you've ever done that.) Let the log dry for, oh, maybe another day or two, cut it into pucks, and let the pucks cure.

Edit: What you might still be asking yourself is why we're insisting on doing this soap with a hot process method. The reason is the stearic acid reacts very quickly with the lye, so the soap batter does not go through the usual stages of emulsion, trace, heavy trace, and pudding. Instead, the soap batter "seizes" -- it goes from a nice, pourable mixture to a stiff, sticky dough within seconds of adding the lye to the fats and stearic acid.

There's no way you can get this soap batter emulsified and poured into a mold so it can do the normal CP thing. Instead, the best solution for a seized soap is to gently cook (heat) the stiff, sticky batter until it fully saponifies and becomes warm enough to soften somewhat. At that point, the soap can be transferred into a mold and allowed to cool.

HP is all about letting the soap saponify in the soap pot, not in the mold. CP is all about letting the soap saponify in the mold, not in the soap pot. The soap will end up saponified one way or the other. It's just the timing that makes the difference.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I use the microwave to cook mine in very small batches - I have a scale which goes to 0.1 gram, so I can make a 100g batch with little risk of measuring issues. You want to make as small a batch as you can, because it will last him forever as it is and if you make even a 500g batch you might never have to make shaving soap for him again!

In some of the sources for all this, some people put microwave safe plastics in to hot water in a saucepan and made a sort of double boiler arrangement, keeping the pot in place with a lid.

Another benefit of this is, in case he wants some changes made to the soap you're not sat on a pile of soap which no one wants to use

 

[IrishLass]

I use my regular oven to HP my shave croap (in a stainless 2-quart pot). I set the temp to 180F and let it cook (covered) until zap-free, which usually takes about an hour or two (I check for zap every 30 minutes).


IrishLass

 

[DeeAnna]

The oven would be safer and less hassle, but slower, which is why your soap is zap free in an hour or 2 and mine is done in 30 minutes or so on the stove. That said, soap making is not a race to see who's fastest. Being somewhat absent minded, the oven might be a better, safer choice for me -- I'll try it next time, IL.

I make 500 g batches, Gent, because I have several lady friends, their male significant others, my DH, and one well-groomed son who regularly deplete my shave soap stash.

 

[Desirae]

Wow that's a lot of info and I didn't know it could be done in the oven it self. My question is since this will be my very 1st try at doing both hp & shaving soap, what will be the easiest way, and how many oz/grams do you recommend to fill say 2-4 oz jars? Bc if it does actually work, I'd like to give 1 jar to hubby and 1 jar to my father, this way I can get I put from 2 dif fervent ppl of different ages with different types of skin.

The one link is super super long 51 pages, that's going to take some time to read each post x 51 pages, I hope it doesn't take me weeks, and hope to come across a very basic basic recipe with the best/simplest way to make this for my 1st time.

If I go with a crock pot, I don't want to ruin my my 5qt I believe that's what I have, but would one of those tiny crock pots work? The little half qt to 1 qt size? I don't want to spend to much on something that I may not be good or or decide I don't like doing.

If anything since I have 2kbs of Noah now, I can try liquid soap for body wash, so maybe I can find a recipe for that as well somewhere on here, lol this was $13 of lye doesn't go to complete waste haha

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

The original recipe comes very early on in the thread. It might be a lot to read, but there you have such a wealth of information- discussions back and forth about why this or that might be better or worse, then experiments and the results.

If you make the soap but get feedback that it needs to be changed, you really should read that thread before asking for help - the basis that you get from that thread will save a lot of time in how people answer, but more importantly you will know more about why certain things are being suggested

 

[Desirae]

The original recipe comes very early on in the thread. It might be a lot to read, but there you have such a wealth of information- discussions back and forth about why this or that might be better or worse, then experiments and the results.

If you make the soap but get feedback that it needs to be changed, you really should read that thread before asking for help - the basis that you get from that thread will save a lot of time in how people answer, but more importantly you will know more about why certain things are being suggested

OK thank you, I will be reading through it and skip over the stuff that isn't related to it specifically, before I even attempt to make it

 

[Susie]

Speaking as someone who was once intimidated by a monster thread, the parts you are tempted to skip over are the very parts you need to read most.

 

[Desirae]

Speaking as someone who was once intimidated by a monster thread, the parts you are tempted to skip over are the very parts you need to read most.

LOL actually I was referring to the comment that aren't related to the subject at all, you know how some ppl will add comments that belong to another thread and go way way off topic that aren't even related to the shaving soap.

 

[Susie]

LOL actually I was referring to the comment that aren't related to the subject at all, you know how some ppl will add comments that belong to another thread and go way way off topic that aren't even related to the shaving soap.

Yeah, I get that. But I can vouch that those "off-topic" quotes sometimes hold little gems of wisdom that you would never suspect were there. I ended up reading a monster thread twice because I skipped the "off-topic" posts. The very details I needed most were ones that were buried in "off-topic" posts.

 

[Desirae]

So I've been reading through the posts that I was given turns out its 99 pages not 54, anyways where would I find tallow at ? Can I use lard or the gv shortening instead? I'd not where would I buy tallow as I don't ever recall finding it at walmart

 

[shunt2011]

So I've been reading through the posts that I was given turns out its 99 pages not 54, anyways where would I find tallow at ? Can I use lard or the gv shortening instead? I'd not where would I buy tallow as I don't ever recall finding it at walmart

Yes, you can use lard or possibly even the GV shortening though I've not tried that one. Just be sure to run the recipe through a soap calc. It's a long thread but so worth reading. I've read the entire thread more than once even though I've made shave croap many times since this post started.

 

[Desirae]

Yes, you can use lard or possibly even the GV shortening though I've not tried that one. Just be sure to run the recipe through a soap calc. It's a long thread but so worth reading. I've read the entire thread more than once even though I've made shave croap many times since this post started.

OK thx, think I'll swing by walmart and pick up more lard and give this a try tonight after work, cross your fingers and wish me luck lol