The impossible dream: palm-free, vegan CP shave soap? (Recipe critique requested)

[Ammanley]

I’ve looked at a lot of shave soap recipes, but none that are: cold-process, palm-free, and tallow/lard-free. I found a source of stearic acid that is soy based, so I want to give shaving soap a shot. Because this would be my first shaving soap - and, more importantly, my first hybrid lye soap - I don’t feel confident in my recipe, but I can’t use any of the recipes I’ve found so far because of the palm/animal fats issue.

Does anyone have tips for making a vegan and palm-free shaving soap (CP)? Here is a recipe I’ve been playing with, using ingredients I already have. I’ve read other posts on here and adjusted my recipe to have more water and more stearic acid.

Shea butter 35%
Stearic acid (soy-based) 35%
Coconut oil 18%
Sunflower oil 8%
Castor oil 4%

40% NaOH
60% KOH
3.5 : 1 water to lye ratio (should I go with more water?)

5% superfat (hopefully this is enough to counter the low conditioning number)

Also, if it’s useful, I’m hoping to use 3” round silicone individual cavity molds. (I also have 3 1/16” round tins I could use instead if the recipe turns out too soft.)

One day I’d love to reformulate this without coconut oil (since it’s highly comedogenic), but I’m trying to take baby steps. Any thoughts or advice is greatly appreciated!

 

[KiwiMoose]

Make sure your tins are not aluminium if you use them!
Also i don't think you need to use that much water- maybe change your lye concentration to 33 - 35% or it will be way to soft. 38% is the default setting in soap calculators for hot process soap, which requires much more water for the cook.

Your recipe has a similar fatty acid profile to mine:

However mine has a lower cleansing number than yours, mainly because I use only 10% CO. Our recipes are fairly similar, except i can't find this soy stearic acid that you speak of, so I use soy wax at 45% of the recipe. I've tried to keep the oleic as low as I can so have not used any specifically high oleic liquid oils - rather, I've chosen liquid oils higher in palmitic value - RBO and avocado. No OO. Shea butter and soy wax both have oleic in them. My creamy lather is higher than yours - probably because I use 12% Castor oil. NaOH 90%/KOH 10%

The soy wax fatty acid profile is not correct in the soap calculators - see @Mobjack Bay's reckonings on that, so my actual stearic acid percentage will not be as high as yours, or indeed as high as the calculator suggests.

My concern with using stearic acid in cold process soap is that it apparently seizes instantly ( instant saponification) which is why people usually hot process shave soap. I would be interested to see how you go with that.

My recipe:
Soy wax 45%
Shea butter 15%
Castor 12%
Coconut oil 10%
RBO 10 %
Avocado oil 5%
Camelia Oil 3%

I also add bentonite clay and some 'vegetable lanolin' to the mix, use green tea and aloe juice 50/50 for the water.

 

[AliOop]

@KiwiMoose has given you lots of great advice here, @Ammanley. You may also want to check out Carrie Siebert's book which uses a "modified hot process" method for making shave soap. It could just as easily be called a "modified cold process" method, since really it is a combo of both. As KiwiMoose said, the heat is necessary to prevent the stearic acid from seizing your soap.

I also wanted to mention that coconut oil is not comodogenic after it is saponified; in fact, when it becomes soap, it becomes very drying and stripping (or "cleansing" as the soap calculator calls it).

Of course, it is possible that some of the CO will remain in the superfat, but if you HP the soap, you can limit that somewhat by reserving 5% of one of the other recipe oils, and adding it after the other oils have been combined with the lye. This is one of the advantages of HP.

Can you explain why you feel strongly about using a CP process to make shave soap? If you don't want to use a crockpot or bain marie, you can simply melt the oils right on the stove. That's what I and many others do, and it's never created any issues. Thought I'd toss that out there in case there is a simple solution to your reasons for not wanting to HP, and the problems that creates due to using stearic acid.

 

[Ammanley]

Make sure your tins are not aluminium if you use them!
Also i don't think you need to use that much water- maybe change your lye concentration to 33 - 35% or it will be way to soft. 38% is the default setting in soap calculators for hot process soap, which requires much more water for the cook.

Your recipe has a similar fatty acid profile to mine:
View attachment 70767
However mine has a lower cleansing number than yours, mainly because I use only 10% CO. Our recipes are fairly similar, except i can't find this soy stearic acid that you speak of, so I use soy wax at 45% of the recipe. I've tried to keep the oleic as low as I can so have not used any specifically high oleic liquid oils - rather, I've chosen liquid oils higher in palmitic value - RBO and avocado. No OO. Shea butter and soy wax both have oleic in them. My creamy lather is higher than yours - probably because I use 12% Castor oil. NaOH 90%/KOH 10%

The soy wax fatty acid profile is not correct in the soap calculators - see @Mobjack Bay's reckonings on that, so my actual stearic acid percentage will not be as high as yours, or indeed as high as the calculator suggests.

My concern with using stearic acid in cold process soap is that it apparently seizes instantly ( instant saponification) which is why people usually hot process shave soap. I would be interested to see how you go with that.

My recipe:
Soy wax 45%
Shea butter 15%
Castor 12%
Coconut oil 10%
RBO 10 %
Avocado oil 5%
Camelia Oil 3%

I also add bentonite clay and some 'vegetable lanolin' to the mix, use green tea and aloe juice 50/50 for the water.

This is so helpful - thank you!!

The soy-based stearic wax is here from From Nature with Love, but your point about the soap calc is so important and it’s one I probably would have overlooked. IF I use the FNWL stearic acid, I won’t rely on soap calc I’ll need to calculate the amount of lye to use manually.

There are two things I added to my recipe in an effort to counter the lightning-fast saponification… the sunflower oil and the high water
content… but I’m looking into this more and I don’t think that is the right approach!!! The water and oils won’t be enough to slow trace, and it will just make the lather less creamy.

I might readjust to add more stearic (and to a lesser extent, palmitic), and re-thing the water. And I’ll need to take Ali’s notes into consideration too!!

@KiwiMoose has given you lots of great advice here, @Ammanley. You may also want to check out Carrie Siebert's book which uses a "modified hot process" method for making shave soap. It could just as easily be called a "modified cold process" method, since really it is a combo of both. As KiwiMoose said, the heat is necessary to prevent the stearic acid from seizing your soap.

I also wanted to mention that coconut oil is not comodogenic after it is saponified; in fact, when it becomes soap, it becomes very drying and stripping (or "cleansing" as the soap calculator calls it).

Of course, it is possible that some of the CO will remain in the superfat, but if you HP the soap, you can limit that somewhat by reserving 5% of one of the other recipe oils, and adding it after the other oils have been combined with the lye. This is one of the advantages of HP.

Can you explain why you feel strongly about using a CP process to make shave soap? If you don't want to use a crockpot or bain marie, you can simply melt the oils right on the stove. That's what I and many others do, and it's never created any issues. Thought I'd toss that out there in case there is a simple solution to your reasons for not wanting to HP, and the problems that creates due to using stearic acid.

Thank you thank you thank you for these details and things to ponder!

I did just order Carrie’s book - it came up in a few other threads and I think it will be really insightful.

I’ll try Carrie’s modified method first, but I think you’ve sold me on HP! A few things were holding me back from trying it - first, I don’t have a crock pot (though even if I did I probably would want another one specifically just for soap!). It also seems like HP takes more time and attention than CP. I’ve been soaping for a year now and I still feel like a newbie, so there’s some self-consciousness — it’s not that you have to master CP to get to HP, but I still feel like I’m getting a handle of soaping in generally and I don’t know if I’m ready for the next step. I’ll try the modified method once I get Carrie’s book and see how ready I feel! Interestingly, I have been melting some of my high-Shea butter oils on the stove, but I take them off heat once I’m ready to add the lye, so maybe it will be a good natural next step for me.

The benefits of HP seem too big to ignore - especially your note about the superfatting! I personally don’t mind the comedogenic component, but I think I had a knee-jerk anti-coconut reaction from some reviews for facial bars that I read online.

Thanks again for this help - I really appreciate it!

 

[KiwiMoose]

This is so helpful - thank you!!

The soy-based stearic wax is here from From Nature with Love, but your point about the soap calc is so important and it’s one I probably would have overlooked. IF I use the FNWL stearic acid, I won’t rely on soap calc I’ll need to calculate the amount of lye to use manually.

There are two things I added to my recipe in an effort to counter the lightning-fast saponification… the sunflower oil and the high water
content… but I’m looking into this more and I don’t think that is the right approach!!! The water and oils won’t be enough to slow trace, and it will just make the lather less creamy.

I might readjust to add more stearic (and to a lesser extent, palmitic), and re-thing the water. And I’ll need to take Ali’s notes into consideration too!!

I didn't start out using KoH in my recipe - but when I did start using it I noticed it slowed trace considerably.

 

[Johnez]

Fantastic that you've found a source for stearic acid-that is half the battle. Non-palm glycerine is a difficulty for me, and I have not found that yet. It looks like you don't add glycerin so you're good to go there, however if you're interested in trying new things you might need to think about a source for non-palm glycerin.

Regarding having to manually calc the amount of lye in the recipe for FNWL soy stearic, you can actually create a custom fat in the soapmakerfriend calculator. I actually do this currently for the stearic I also got from FNWL funny enough.

Here's an example of how I did mine:

@AliOop mentions a book I have and used, Carrie Siebert's How To Make Shaving Soap. Recipe #9 is a winner IMO. @Professor Bernardo has shared a wonderful video on the modified cold process that uses a slightly modified Siebert recipe. If you watch the video, you'll notice it is not super difficult nor does it instantly sieze. Easy soaping, comes out perfectly:

It's my regular personal shave soap, and it really is a winner.

Post in thread 'Dual Lye Shaving Soap w/Stearic Acid Failures' Dual Lye Shaving Soap w/Stearic Acid Failures

For reference in case you have trouble with the video.

 

[CreativeWeirdo]

Post in thread 'Dual Lye Shaving Soap w/Stearic Acid Failures' Dual Lye Shaving Soap w/Stearic Acid Failures

For reference in case you have trouble with the video.

I have this thread bookmarked, but I haven't found a supplier for KOH... I haven't looked very hard, so that would explain it.

 

[Ammanley]

Fantastic that you've found a source for stearic acid-that is half the battle. Non-palm glycerine is a difficulty for me, and I have not found that yet. It looks like you don't add glycerin so you're good to go there, however if you're interested in trying new things you might need to think about a source for non-palm glycerin.

Regarding having to manually calc the amount of lye in the recipe for FNWL soy stearic, you can actually create a custom fat in the soapmakerfriend calculator. I actually do this currently for the stearic I also got from FNWL funny enough.

Here's an example of how I did mine:

@AliOop mentions a book I have and used, Carrie Siebert's How To Make Shaving Soap. Recipe #9 is a winner IMO. @Professor Bernardo has shared a wonderful video on the modified cold process that uses a slightly modified Siebert recipe. If you watch the video, you'll notice it is not super difficult nor does it instantly sieze. Easy soaping, comes out perfectly:

It's my regular personal shave soap, and it really is a winner.

This video makes it look very do-able!!

 

[AliOop]

I have this thread bookmarked, but I haven't found a supplier for KOH... I haven't looked very hard, so that would explain it.

If you are in the US, try Essential Depot. I usually find that ordering from them via Amazon with free Prime delivery is less expensive than ordering directly through their website.

 

[Blufuz]

I’m very new to all of this, and I tried my first batch of shaving soap using this recipe: DIY Shaving Soap Recipe (& How to Use Shave Soap)

I was interested in testing whether the use of glycerin instead of water actually helps. (It’s also palm free, but only with NaOH). I did two batches, one with glycerin the other with water.

The soap did come really close to seizing in the first batch, and whether related or not, my blender broke, so in the second one I had to just stir with a whisk. This turned out fine, it saponified just as much as the properly blended one (took a little longer in the mold though), it poured nicely, and when I tested with pH strips there was no residual lye in either.

So tldr; CP without using a stick blender will work well with these types of recipes.

 

[AliOop]

Nice to hear that your shave soap turned out well!

when I tested with pH strips there was no residual lye in either.

Please be aware that pH testing does not tell you whether there is any residual lye in your handcrafted soap, i.e., whether the soap is lye-heavy. Also, the pH strips themselves are notoriously inaccurate for measuring the pH of soap.

A better (and free) way to test for excess lye is the zap test. You can read more about that here.

 

[Becky1024]

I’m very new to all of this, and I tried my first batch of shaving soap using this recipe: DIY Shaving Soap Recipe (& How to Use Shave Soap)

I was interested in testing whether the use of glycerin instead of water actually helps. (It’s also palm free, but only with NaOH). I did two batches, one with glycerin the other with water.

The soap did come really close to seizing in the first batch, and whether related or not, my blender broke, so in the second one I had to just stir with a whisk. This turned out fine, it saponified just as much as the properly blended one (took a little longer in the mold though), it poured nicely, and when I tested with pH strips there was no residual lye in either.

So tldr; CP without using a stick blender will work well with these types of recipes.

A whisk works better than a stick blender anyway for high stearic acid shave soaps because the stearic acid moves so fast. You made a happy mistake!