I already said this so I’m not sure what your point is.
The Dangers of....Mica?!?!
- Thread starter Wendy90292
- Start date
Help Support Soapmaking Forum:
I already said this so I’m not sure what your point is.
gladysjones
Well-Known Member
- Joined
- Mar 18, 2021
- Messages
- 237
- Reaction score
- 191
Oh well, the controversy alone is enough to make me stick to my natural colorants. It's more challenging and I might not get the bright vibrant colors, but it's how nature(and it's creator) intended. That's how I'll be soaping. To each they're own. 
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
Wonderful news! Thanks. I bought most of mine from Ann Marie, so that's good news!
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
Sadly, I had just stocked up on my five favorite colors - 6 oz of each. So I am going to get to the bottom of this. If they DO contain those trace minerals, they'll be resold. If they don't, then I will use them up but source more responsibly going forward (in about 3 years when I get to the bottom of my stash!)
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
Said perfectly. I feel the same way now.
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
Well, if we are inventive, there are many other ways to color soap, even brightly. The second soaping book I bought was Ann Marie's "Natural Soaping" something or other...but almsot every colorant is something really only she sells...and old women living on farms in England who were burned at the stake as witches long before I was born. WTH is "alkanet"? I went to 15 stores online and 3 IRL trying to find that and some other ingredients she lists...
Alkanet is a plant. The root is used as a colorant. It can be purchased as a powder or as whole root from many soap suppliers.
ETA: If you want to find it in a store, try Wild Terra in LA: Alkanet Root Powder | WILD TERRA
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
Of course we all know that Titanium Dioxide is CARCINOGENIC if inhaled. (Look it up!) That was the whole drama with talcum powder. So now when I soap using TD, I wear a particle mask, of which we all now have plenty... I am mildly haunted, though, by the time I dropped a half cup of it on my workbench before I knew and I breathed it in for +2 hours, so much so that my nose was dusted with it. Oops.
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
During Covid, EVERYTHING travels more than we do!
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
I respect your opinion here, but I did and your belief may be inaccurate according to my sources. That's why I posed.
Wendy90292
Well-Known Member
Really? Could you send me a link, please? I've only seen it from her, and quite expensive for a root powder!
Wasn't there a documentary about this? I thought it was widely known.
There is organisation that is trying to make mining of mica more transparent, however they are relying on voluntary collaboration with the industry and they are actively trying to help people source mica that is ethical. The Responsible Mica initiative
For me, this is about sustainability. I think we all should be thinking about our supply chain. I try to ethically source all my ingredients and raw materials. I like to know where it's from, how it's made and its impact. So yes, this means I use synthetic products because just because it's natural doesn't mean it's ethical or cruelty free.
Someone above mentioned LUSH taking out mica. I don't believe they did it for ethical reasons (yeah they are against animal testing etc) but rather because of the push from consumers and how they are "seen" by the general public. It's all about perception for companies like LUSH. I used to work at LUSH and really don't think they are sustainable or ethical. In 2019 Lush were voted as the least ethical supply chain by Ethical Consumer.
There is organisation that is trying to make mining of mica more transparent, however they are relying on voluntary collaboration with the industry and they are actively trying to help people source mica that is ethical. The Responsible Mica initiative
For me, this is about sustainability. I think we all should be thinking about our supply chain. I try to ethically source all my ingredients and raw materials. I like to know where it's from, how it's made and its impact. So yes, this means I use synthetic products because just because it's natural doesn't mean it's ethical or cruelty free.
Someone above mentioned LUSH taking out mica. I don't believe they did it for ethical reasons (yeah they are against animal testing etc) but rather because of the push from consumers and how they are "seen" by the general public. It's all about perception for companies like LUSH. I used to work at LUSH and really don't think they are sustainable or ethical. In 2019 Lush were voted as the least ethical supply chain by Ethical Consumer.
You assume the cultivation and extraction of natural colorants is “cruelty free.” Where do your natural colorants come from? If you use annatto, it is very likely that someone is hand-picking the seed in a third world country. Demand for indigo worldwide is high and mostly derived from crops in India. Just because it is a “natural” colorant doesn’t mean that its industry doesn’t have its dirty laundry.Oh well, the controversy alone is enough to make me stick to my natural colorants. It's more challenging and I might not get the bright vibrant colors, but it's how nature(and it's creator) intended. That's how I'll be soaping. To each they're own.
Where do you draw the line in your awareness? This isn’t a judgement of your stance on the matter. I cannot fault someone for wanting to make the world a cleaner, safer, more fair world.
Entire communities that depended on the coal industry for generations to put food on the table, purchase homes, clothe their children, pay for necessities, for better or for worse, mourn the dying coal industry. It’s a luxury to shake our fists against the dirtiness of coal because we don’t have to deal with the immediate repercussions of coal mines closing. But to those communities? It’s an economic death sentence.
...
Last edited:
Oh well, the controversy alone is enough to make me stick to my natural colorants. It's more challenging and I might not get the bright vibrant colors, but it's how nature(and it's creator) intended. That's how I'll be soaping. To each they're own.
While I agree with this in theory, just because something is natural doesn't mean that it's ethical/cruelty-free/sustainable. Unfortunately, clay mining has its issues too.
What happens when we deplete the earth's natural resources? Scientists and manufacturers are always working on better alternatives and synethics. We've seen this already with sulphate surfactants and as people become more aware there is a greater demand.
Please don't think I'm "attacking" your choices, as I know your choices are admirable, just maybe a tad ill informed. Don worry we are all always learning new things. I do believe as formulators and soapmakers we have a responsibility to become more aware about the raw materials we use.
See edit above with one link.
Here are two options at Mountain Rose Herbs (A little goes a long way, btw): Root or Powder
There are other suppliers as well. Bulk Apothacary, Wholesale Supplies Plus, StarWest Botanicals...
Almost every industry has issues. As for coal mining, they are talking about shutting down a large coal mine in the Winnemucca are of Nevada and replacing it with a Lithium MIne. I just wonder when they will find this no safer...But where I am going with this is many families depend on the income from this coal mine and their mothers and fathers that work there will most likely not find work as this is a small mining community.
We get on our high horses about how all different issues including mica mining, coal mining, children's crop works, palm plantations, and the list goes on. We frankly Cannot control every country and need to take care of our own falling apart country. Do we let families and children starve because they should not work somewhere? I do not think so. Have you seen a child picking strawberries in a field to help their family out graffiting walls and frowning or crying that they are unhappy? I have not. We need to come to our senses. I am sorry, I do use palm oil and mica and I do not put Animals above people, it may be sad but that is part of life on this planet. I much prefer to Save the CHILDREN...
Okay I am done.
I can go on and on with my rant but I will quit before I get myself in more trouble. 
Mad Micas Ethical statement:
And a response from Nurture Soap to an email/contact us request I sent today (27 Apr 2021) regarding what they mean by "responsibly sourced" on their micas:
"Responsibly sourced means we track our supply line as far as possible. In the case of micas we can't be 100% sure what goes on in the mines because we can't see them with our own eyes. This is true for anyone who supplies mica colors because these mines are heavily guarded and no one is allowed in.
We have developed very close relationships with our suppliers, and have even met some of our international suppliers in person! We require statements from each that no child labor is involved and no animal testing has been performed. However to be 100% certain no child labor is involved in the mining process you can choose the lab created micas which you an see here Micas"
----------------------------------------
These are the two suppliers for mica that I have most used / liked. I've tried WSP & RE and I'm less satisfied.
Of course the above statements were released by the companies themselves. They are incentivized to tell us what we'd want to hear and what makes them look good. However there's only so far that I can go, and Nurture makes note of this themselves, to verify the authenticity of the statement. It is thus incumbent upon me to decide whether I am willing to, until proven otherwise, trust what they put out.
I choose to trust it.
Given the range of color options and the efficacy of the micas, the customer service, the turn around times... I think I'll stick with these two. They seem, thus far, like ethical companies and put to rest the concerns I need to have about the use of micas.
- Mad Micas requires declarations from all suppliers stating that no minors participate in mining, factory work, transportation or any other process involved in the production of anything we carry.
- Mad Micas will not source product from areas (for example, mica from India) in which there have been documented ethical transgressions.
And a response from Nurture Soap to an email/contact us request I sent today (27 Apr 2021) regarding what they mean by "responsibly sourced" on their micas:
"Responsibly sourced means we track our supply line as far as possible. In the case of micas we can't be 100% sure what goes on in the mines because we can't see them with our own eyes. This is true for anyone who supplies mica colors because these mines are heavily guarded and no one is allowed in.
We have developed very close relationships with our suppliers, and have even met some of our international suppliers in person! We require statements from each that no child labor is involved and no animal testing has been performed. However to be 100% certain no child labor is involved in the mining process you can choose the lab created micas which you an see here Micas"
----------------------------------------
These are the two suppliers for mica that I have most used / liked. I've tried WSP & RE and I'm less satisfied.
Of course the above statements were released by the companies themselves. They are incentivized to tell us what we'd want to hear and what makes them look good. However there's only so far that I can go, and Nurture makes note of this themselves, to verify the authenticity of the statement. It is thus incumbent upon me to decide whether I am willing to, until proven otherwise, trust what they put out.
I choose to trust it.
Given the range of color options and the efficacy of the micas, the customer service, the turn around times... I think I'll stick with these two. They seem, thus far, like ethical companies and put to rest the concerns I need to have about the use of micas.
Similar threads
