Tests of LS made with Glycerin-Water vs Water-only lye solutions

[DeeAnna]

I don't know -- give it a try, Rosche!

 

[cm4bleenmb]

I wonder if the glycerin can be subtitute with sugar water? the price will be significantly cheaper.

When you say 'sugar water' do you mean adding a small amount to the water as some people do for bar soaps, or are you thinking of something more along the lines of a simple syrup? Because a simple syrup would be a lot of sugar, and popular wisdom says to be cautious with sugar amounts in bar soap because of over-heating, so I'm wondering how that advice might apply to doing liquid soaps?

Also, we add sugar to bar soaps to help lather, but liquid soaps are more water-soluble so they should be inclined to lather more easily anyways and not need sugar for that, right? So aside from being cheaper than glycerin, what qualities might sugar bring to the party in a liquid soap?

Are there any soapers with more experience out there who could weigh in on this? Safety concerns? Benefits to skin? Any other thoughts?

 

[rosche]

I myself haven't try subtitute glycerin with sugar water in making liquid soap. But will experiment soon X)

And sugar water here I mean like simple syrup. I guess 1:1 or 1:2 water : sugar ratio.

In this case, the water sugar will be mix in the lye solution just like glycerin method. I'm thinking about this subtitution because in baking, glycerin is used as a sweetener and to make cake shiny, and sugar water can also do that. Glycerin is humectant, and afaik sugar water can do that to, similar like honey. So maybe I can subtitute glycerin method with sugar water method. Haha.

But yeah, I dont really know yet. It still very far to make a good conclusion. But if the subtitution going well, that would be awesome.

Would like to know how other people think also. This is interesting, I guess.

Anyway, sorry for my bad english. I hope anyone understand what I'm trying to say X)

 

[IrishLass]

Because a simple syrup would be a lot of sugar, and popular wisdom says to be cautious with sugar amounts in bar soap because of over-heating, so I'm wondering how that advice might apply to doing liquid soaps?

I've never tried using sugar in my liquid soap made with KOH, but I would tread cautiously nevertheless. As cm4bleenmb pointed out, sugar solutions mixed with NaOH can easily overheat (and can cause the sugar to burn and turn brown and stinky), depending on how much sugar is used.

Sugar (again, depending on how much) can also cause the lye solution to expand so much from the heat reaction that it will cause a dangerously hot, spewing volcano of caustic liquid threatening to spill over the rim of your mixing container (I've had that happen when adding honey solution to my lye before....it even hissed and bubbled).

For what it's worth, glycerin has never done that to me- it is a tame kitten in comparison to sugar when mixed with lye.


IrishLass

 

[rosche]

I've made the "sugar water" method this day. First trying, total mess! Haha. I forget that lye solution could be very hot and yes, it turn the sugar water to caramel. Duh.

I tried again, but this time 50:50. I dulite the lye with water first, let it cool then add the sugar water. Pretty fine. It make the overall cooking etc faster then using water only.

I also did the glicerin method. 50:50 also. This glycerin is faster than the sugar water.

The final paste, the one with the sugar water turn out really nice shiny translucent paste. The glycerin one turn out nice too but more opaque.

The sugar water paste is a bit dry if I touch it. But not too sticky like regular paste. With the glycerin, it sticky.

For the consistency, the glycerin is the firmer, the reguler is the second, and the th ird is sugar water. Is soft, but dry.

For the dilution, since I use high amount of palm oil, it turn cloudy. But the glycerin one turn out the clearest.

So in conclusion :
Water only paste : medium firm, medium stickyness, cloudy, quite transparent paste, longest cooking time
Sugar water : soft and dry, cloudy, transparent and shiny like jelly, quite short cooking time
Glycerin : firmest, most sticky, cloudy but the clearest than water only or sugar water, a bit opaque shiny translucent paste (but not as shiny as the sugar water) the fastest cooking time.

So, I guess, better to mix glycerin and water sugar together. I see that water sugar is +-50-60% similar to glycerin, will down the cost and have its own nice characteristic. That way we will have combo benefit.

 

[cm4bleenmb]

The final paste, the one with the sugar water turn out really nice shiny translucent paste.
Sugar water : soft and dry, cloudy, transparent and shiny like jelly, quite short cooking time
So, I guess, better to mix glycerin and water sugar together. I see that water sugar is +-50-60% similar to glycerin, will down the cost and have its own nice characteristic. That way we will have combo benefit.

It's been a long time since I read it, but isn't there something in Faillor's book on transparent soap about sugar and clarity? Maybe in relationship to the alcohol? I don't know what I'm thinking, that somehow the sugar changes the structure so it's more shiny and jelly-like? Sugar will crystalize??? Help??? LOL

I don't know what I'm thinking, I need to go to bed. That was very interesting, rosche. Thanks for being the brave one. Oh, wait. How much sugar to water did you use? I'm assuming 50:50 means half the water was plain for dissolving the lye, then the other half had sugar in it?

 

[rosche]

Yes. 50% demineral water. 50% sugar water where the ratio is 1:1 water to sugar.

For my eksperiment, beside i use high amount of palm, I also use high amount of coconut oil.

The lather test result is the one with the glycerin is more moisturising then only sugar water. The bubble is pretty much the same.

Tonight I'll try to mix the glycerin and the sugar water to see what happen if both combine

 

[rosche]

So, the result with using water, sugar water and glycerin is, although you use high amount of palm, it will stay clear when it is diluted.

But..., I make two batches, the first batches is still clear after few days, the second batches look clear at first but become cloudy few days later.

Maybe there's something wrong with my measurement. X)

But overall, I like the three combination the most.

 

[springonions]

So, the result with using water, sugar water and glycerin is, although you use high amount of palm, it will stay clear when it is diluted.

But..., I make two batches, the first batches is still clear after few days, the second batches look clear at first but become cloudy few days later.

Maybe there's something wrong with my measurement. X)

But overall, I like the three combination the most.

Three combination? So you used 1/3 plain water, 1/3 glycerin and 1/3 sugar water?

Very interesting, I want to try that. Thanks for the experiment.

 

[rosche]

Three combination? So you used 1/3 plain water, 1/3 glycerin and 1/3 sugar water?

Very interesting, I want to try that. Thanks for the experiment.

Yes, you're welcome. But after some time, I think, use sugar water if you want to reduce cost because glycerin is quite expensive. But if you have the money, water and glycerin only will do better. And more simple. But can't really make high amount of palm oil super clear.

 

[Refael Eran Skira]

I wonder if the glycerin can be subtitute with sugar water? the price will be significantly cheaper.

I wonder as well.
by the way . are there any other ways to thicken LS? lets say...adding glycering? or any other ingredients...ie TEA (TriEphyleAmine)?
I will try it..if it is allowed in Alcogel...it probably would be allowed in soap if it worked