Superfat Question

[jennyannlowe]

Can someone help me out? I made my first batch of liquid soap today. I used the WSP recipe. The article says it uses a negative superfat because KOH is only 90%. THe KOH I used is from AAA Chemical Co.


Base Oils:
Coconut Oil - 10 oz.
Olive Oil - 10 oz.
Rice Bran Oil - 8 oz.
Avocado Oil - 8 oz.
Castor Oil - 6 oz.
Caustic Solution:
Potassium Hydroxide - 9 oz.
Distilled Water - 27 oz.
Dilution Phase:
Distilled Water - 62.4 oz.
Liquid Glycerin - 15.6 oz.

Can someone tell me if I need to add superfat or do I already have it included?

Thank you!

http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.co...e/Learn-to-Make-Liquid-Soap-From-Scratch.aspx

 

[Susie]

You can run your recipe through http://soapee.com/calculator and see for yourself.

You really need to read this thread, especially post #8: http://soapee.com/calculator
It makes an awesome handwashing soap.

 

[jennyannlowe]

I would greatly appreciate someone's advice on this....I've been reading about LS and the article with the recipe talks about a negative superfat and I dont quite understand. I ran it through calculators but I'm still not clear on this because it dosent indicate the dulution water amount or the glyercin and the effect it has on the superfat....I'm. reading and reading and reading a lot. Sure is a lot to take in and I have every intention on buying Fallors book on LS making. I would be very grateful for someones opinion in the meantime. I always try to read first to resolve something I'm confused about. When reading doesnt answer my question right away is when i reach out for help. Please help me im confused!

Thank you !

edit-- i ran it through this calculator. Entering the oils I used, the KOH amount the calculator calls for is 9.01 KOH. The recipe that i used called for 8.90 KOH.

So what does that mean? :cry:

 

[Susie]

You can run your recipe through http://soapee.com/calculator and see for yourself.

You really need to read this thread, especially post #8: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114
It makes an awesome handwashing soap.

ETA: Fixed it, sorry!

 

[Susie]

I would greatly appreciate someone's advice on this....I've been reading about LS and the article with the recipe talks about a negative superfat and I dont quite understand. I ran it through calculators but I'm still not clear on this because it dosent indicate the dulution water amount or the glyercin and the effect it has on the superfat....I'm. reading and reading and reading a lot. Sure is a lot to take in and I have every intention on buying Fallors book on LS making. I would be very grateful for someones opinion in the meantime. I always try to read first to resolve something I'm confused about. When reading doesnt answer my question right away is when i reach out for help. Please help me im confused!

Thank you !

edit-- i ran it through this calculator. Entering the oils I used, the KOH amount the calculator calls for is 9.01 KOH. The recipe that i used called for 8.90 KOH.

So what does that mean? :cry:

I have to go to work in 5 minutes, so please forgive my brevity.

Dilution water and glycerin have no effect on superfat. Neither contain fats.

You do NOT need to use a negative superfat to make good liquid soap! This is the old way of doing things. We now use soap calculators and positive superfats.

On the calculator, what % of purity did you write down? The default for the purity is 90% (which is what I use for ED KOH). Also, what superfat did you set the calculator for? The default there is 5%. I use no more than 3% superfat for liquid soaps to avoid floating oils after dilution.

I also set the lye calculator for 3:1 water/KOH ratio for ease of dilution.

Hopefully someone with more time can go through your whole process and the soap calculator with you, or I can when I get off of work.

 

[IrishLass]

You do NOT need to use a negative superfat to make good liquid soap! This is the old way of doing things. We now use soap calculators and positive superfats.

Ditto 100%^^^!!!

Hi Jenny-

Susie is right- liquid soapmaking does not need to be as hard/confusing as what WSP makes it out to be, or Catherine Failor for that matter either (as wonderful as she is). I mean no disparagement to Catherine Failor, because she was a huge pioneer in getting the handmade LS movement started, but I have her book, and during the time since it was first printed so many improvements have been made to the process to make it a less complicated, much quicker, easier and enjoyable experience.

Also- I don't like how WSP gives such a huge sample batch for brand new liquid soapers to try to make (what were they thinking????). I would've started with half of that amount, but I digress.

Before ever thinking about making another batch, I would forget everything you read on the WSP site about liquid soap-making and start afresh with the link Susie gave you http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=46114 Start at post #8 and read forward through the rest of thread.

In the meantime, you have a huge amount of paste on your hands (as liquid soap batches go) to be dealt with.

Before I say anything further in regard to the superfat, I need to know one thing first: Have you zap-tested your paste? If not, zap-test it and let's go from there.


IrishLass

 

[jennyannlowe]

I think I understand now, Thank you both for the insight. I was confusing myself.

 

[Persofit]

I have to go to work in 5 minutes, so please forgive my brevity.

Dilution water and glycerin have no effect on superfat. Neither contain fats.

You do NOT need to use a negative superfat to make good liquid soap! This is the old way of doing things. We now use soap calculators and positive superfats.

On the calculator, what % of purity did you write down? The default for the purity is 90% (which is what I use for ED KOH). Also, what superfat did you set the calculator for? The default there is 5%. I use no more than 3% superfat for liquid soaps to avoid floating oils after dilution.

I also set the lye calculator for 3:1 water/KOH ratio for ease of dilution.

Hopefully someone with more time can go through your whole process and the soap calculator with you, or I can when I get off of work.

What PH do you have in you soaps, around 9?

 

[IrishLass]

I'm not Susie, but the pH range of all safe, properly-made lye-based soaps (whether liquid or solid) can range anywhere between about 8.5 to as high as 12.4.

You won't find many of us here, Susie included, that check the pH of our soaps, though (whether liquid or solid), since it has been demonstrated through the dermatological Irritability Index clinical studies to have little bearing on the safety of a soap. (see the Irritability Index chart in DeeAnna's post here )

Notice that in the chart, the soap recorded as having the highest pH (Johnson's Baby Oat soap with a pH of 12.4) rated as being the least irritating in the clinical tests, which, by the way, were conducted only on lye-based soaps (i.e., no syndets in the mix).

When determining safety, the zap-test is a much more reliable test since it is able to reveal what a pH test cannot- namely whether or not there is still any unreacted lye in the soap. For example, a soap can test out with a 9 or 10 in pH, which is theoretically considered to be in the 'safe zone', but still have unreacted lye in it according to the zap test. Which one will you trust to determine whether or not your soap is safe to use? For me, I'll rely on the zap test every time.

For what it's worth, I have out of curiosity tested the pH of my own liquid soap paste (with Macherey-Nagel plastic lab-grade strips in a 1% soap solution) and it tested out as being between 9 to 9.5...... both with a slight zap and also without, which just proves my point about pH not being a very reliable indicator of safety.


IrishLass

 

[DeeAnna]

IL -- I went back and re-read that thread. Oh dear, that was a rough one. :silent:

 

[IrishLass]

IL -- I went back and re-read that thread. Oh dear, that was a rough one. :silent:

Yep- as rough as trying to cross a high wire in a hurricane....wearing high heels. So many people ended up learning so much from that thread, though. There are lots of golden nuggets to be gleaned in there, no doubt about it!


IrishLass

 

[Susie]

I zap test. I own a calibrate-able pH meter. I do not use it other than to prove to people that pH and "lye heavy" have little to no relation to one another. Use the zap test. You do not need to know what the pH is, you need to know if there is lye that has not been turned into soap.

ETA: That was a rough thread, but there are many, many lessons in there for folks. One of which, unfortunately, is how not to act.