Stealing someone’s recipes

[shunt2011]

Thanks
BTW it seems when you add Pumpkin. The soap does not seem to be as “smooth” . Meaning it’s kind of got fiber striations?

I’ve never noticed that in my pumpkin soap. I blend it really well into my oils before adding my lye. So maybe my stick blender does a good job.

 

[penelopejane]

Thanks
BTW it seems when you add Pumpkin. The soap does not seem to be as “smooth” . Meaning it’s kind of got fiber striations?

I steam my pumpkin and then put it in a blender to blend it until it is very, very smooth. If I use too much water to get it smooth I heat on the stove top it until it is pretty dry. If you use that method you will avoid the fibres.

 

[David Gregory]

I've probably spent hours on a lye calculator [Thanks Wholesale Supplies Plus: The only one I found immediately easy to use] plugging in various oils in different combinations to discover aspects which gave: hardness, cleansing ability, bubbles, conditioning, low linoleic and linolenic [to avoid DOS and possibilities of rancidity developing].

It is said you can fill a room with monkeys and give each a typewriter and eventually they'll type out a novel [or a dart board with the stock exchange listings on it and they'll create a profitable hedge fund].

If I get lucky and find THE recipe, it won't be my own skills but chance. And I'll share it with everyone. Likelihood: zero. Hope: infinite.

Ook ook.

 

[Norine Holland]

@artemis Why would swirling or fragrance blending be different? If there's a technique or fragrance blend that's been shared on the interwebs or youtube I think it's still fair game. They wouldn't show how to do it if they didn't think someone was going to try it or utilize it. The challenges here are generally based on a technique someone else has done and posted somewhere. And others freely share blending ideas.

Bottom Line—- If you dont want it used, or sold, dont post it on an international web site. Its YOUR RESPONSIBILITY, not the readers. If someone wishes to use, or sell something I post, I consider it a compliment whether or not they credit me. There are only so many itterations of a recipe in the long run. You may think its “yours” when many have used a same recipe they did not read anywhere. Spending time being hurt benefits no one.

 

[bookreader451]

I steam my pumpkin and then put it in a blender to blend it until it is very, very smooth. If I use too much water to get it smooth I heat on the stove top it until it is pretty dry. If you use that method you will avoid the fibres.

I use a lot of pumpkin (not in soap cause I am new at that) but boil it, throw it in a blender then line a strainer with coffee filter and set over a bowl, cover with plastic and let it sit. It is smooth and creamy but not watery at all.

 

[David Christopher]

I've probably spent hours on a lye calculator [Thanks Wholesale Supplies Plus: The only one I found immediately easy to use] plugging in various oils in different combinations to discover aspects which gave: hardness, cleansing ability, bubbles, conditioning, low linoleic and linolenic [to avoid DOS and possibilities of rancidity developing].

It is said you can fill a room with monkeys and give each a typewriter and eventually they'll type out a novel [or a dart board with the stock exchange listings on it and they'll create a profitable hedge fund].

If I get lucky and find THE recipe, it won't be my own skills but chance. And I'll share it with everyone. Likelihood: zero. Hope: infinite.

Ook ook.

I totally gotcha .. I feel the same way .. but I just wanted to hear from some of y’all experienced soap monkeys

I steam my pumpkin and then put it in a blender to blend it until it is very, very smooth. If I use too much water to get it smooth I heat on the stove top it until it is pretty dry. If you use that method you will avoid the fibres.

Thanks will do ... Pumpkin is one of my favorites

 

[penelopejane]

I've probably spent hours on a lye calculator [Thanks Wholesale Supplies Plus: The only one I found immediately easy to use] plugging in various oils in different combinations to discover aspects which gave: hardness, cleansing ability, bubbles, conditioning, low linoleic and linolenic [to avoid DOS and possibilities of rancidity developing].

If I get lucky and find THE recipe, it won't be my own skills but chance. And I'll share it with everyone. Likelihood: zero. Hope: infinite.

Ook ook.

I don't use the soap calcs to work out a good recipe because they aren't very reliable especially for Olive oil soap. A better method of calculating the various aspects of soap is to use DeeAnna's method listed in her notes.

There are lots of free, excellent recipes in the last 5 pages of the forum. It is a matter of finding one suitable to your skin and your own personal preferences. Good luck.

 

[Saltwater Scented]

I don't use the soap calcs to work out a good recipe because they aren't very reliable especially for Olive oil soap. A better method of calculating the various aspects of soap is to use DeeAnna's method listed in her notes.

There are lots of free, excellent recipes in the last 5 pages of the forum. It is a matter of finding one suitable to your skin and your own personal preferences. Good luck.

Where might that be listed? I'm loving the amount of information to learn from here.

 

[Aquamarine56]

I would not be advocating online the merits of not using a lye calculator, especially for newbies, of which there would be many on this site. It's best to be safe and if you find a soap recipe online, it is still safest to run it through your calculator to check the ingredients and measurements.

 

[shunt2011]

Where might that be listed? I'm loving the amount of information to learn from here.

Here you go! A lot of awesome information for making soapy stuff.

https://classicbells.com/soap/soapyStuff.asp

 

[earlene]

I would not be advocating online the merits of not using a lye calculator, especially for newbies, of which there would be many on this site. It's best to be safe and if you find a soap recipe online, it is still safest to run it through your calculator to check the ingredients and measurements.

Aquamarine56, I believe penelopejane was saying that lye calculators are not good for developing a good recipe. I do not believe she meant to infer that one should not use a lye calculator for figuring out how much lye is required once a good recipe is formulated using guidelines as indicated in DeeAnna's soapy stuff articles.

Repeatedly, people here say to run a revised, borrowed, or new recipe through a lye calculator to be sure the amount of lye being used is correct. PJ is one of those people, and so is DeeAnna.

 

[penelopejane]

I would not be advocating online the merits of not using a lye calculator, especially for newbies, of which there would be many on this site. It's best to be safe and if you find a soap recipe online, it is still safest to run it through your calculator to check the ingredients and measurements.

You are right. Every recipe should be run through a calculator.

What I was saying, as Earlene confirmed was that "the numbers" that come out of calculators relating to conditioning, hardness etc do not work very well, especially for me because I use high olive oils soaps. Lye calculator "numbers" don't take into account that OO soaps become very, very hard after a long cure.

 

[TheGecko]

I totally understand that many diapers work on their recipes fo years ( or always months) however. I was wondering how much of an online recipe needs to be modified before it’s not “stealing” I’ve taken a basic Crisco recipe and have used goats milk instead of water. As well I have added items such as honey and/or ingredients like pumpkin.. does is adjusting the water content considered a modification
I also took the original recipe and ran it through Soapcal and that adjusted the amounts as well.
What’s the proper way to respect other soapers
Thanks Dave

If a recipe has been posted online, it is being freely given and thus you are not stealing (take [another person's property] without permission or legal right) it.

 

[DeeAnna]

... A better method of calculating the various aspects of soap is to use DeeAnna's method listed in her notes....

I think the specific article on my website that relates to this discussion is this -- https://classicbells.com/soap/soapCalcNumbers.asp

If a recipe has been posted online, it is being freely given and thus you are not stealing (take [another person's property] without permission or legal right) it.

I think most of us would agree it would be very difficult to prove a particular soap recipe is utterly owned by one person. But taken in a broad sense, the advice "if you can find it online, it's fair game to take" may violate copyright laws and if so, yes, that is stealing.

Online intellectual property is protected by copyright unless a person explicitly gives up copyright protection by stating the info is in the public domain or otherwise by clearly relinquishing ownership. You don't have to have the (c) mark or copyright statements plastered everywhere for copyright protection to exist.

For public forums like this one, people may waive their rights to copyright protection if they post comments on the forum. The Terms of Service for a public site should address that issue of whether comments are owned by the poster or by the forum or are in the public domain -- it can vary.

I have put a large number of informational articles on my website, and I can and do maintain my copyright protection for these online resources. I would be (and have been) greatly peeved to have some stranger take my intellectual property without my permission. Makes no difference whether it's an article on my website or in hardcopy form. I know people do this, but it isn't legal, nor do I like it.

 

[TheGecko]

I think most of us would agree it would be very difficult to prove a particular soap recipe is utterly owned by one person. But taken in a broad sense, the advice "if you can find it online, it's fair game to take" may violate copyright laws and if so, yes, that is stealing.

Online intellectual property is protected by copyright unless a person explicitly gives up copyright protection by stating the info is in the public domain or otherwise by clearly relinquishing ownership. You don't have to have the (c) mark or copyright statements plastered everywhere for copyright protection to exist.

For public forums like this one, people may waive their rights to copyright protection if they post comments on the forum. The Terms of Service for a public site should address that issue of whether comments are owned by the poster or by the forum or are in the public domain -- it can vary.

I have put a large number of informational articles on my website, and I can and do maintain my copyright protection for these online resources. I would be (and have been) greatly peeved to have some stranger take my intellectual property without my permission. Makes no difference whether it's an article on my website or in hardcopy form. I know people do this, but it isn't legal, nor do I like it.

I think we have a bit of a miscommunication here.

Copyright law has nothing to do with USING a recipe you found online...regardless of whether you are making soap, cookies or white chicken chili (yum).

When it comes to recipes and copyright in the U.S., the law is very clear that copyright does not protect recipes, “That are mere listings of ingredients,” However, it can, “Extend to to substantial literary expression – a description, explanation, or illustration, for example – that accompanies a recipe or formula…”

What this means is that the basics of a recipe are not copyright protected. The list of ingredients and the actual steps that one takes to complete it are not protectable as they are mere facts and formulas. However, the expression of that recipe can be protected, especially if there is a literary description, images, illustrations or other elements along with the recipe.

See 17 U.S.C. 102(b)

 

[DeeAnna]

You wrote -- "....Copyright law has nothing to do with USING a recipe you found online...."

Nope, no miscommunication. I understood what you were saying and acknowledged your point in my previous post --

"...I think most of us would agree it would be very difficult to prove a particular soap recipe is utterly owned by one person...."

I just took it a little further to make my own point --

"...But taken in a broad sense, the advice "if you can find it online, it's fair game to take" may violate copyright laws and if so, yes, that is stealing....

 

[Mistrael]

Excellent question! I try to give credit where credit is due. For example, the arthritis cream I make is tweaked to my satisfaction, but, when sharing the recipe, I give credit to Linda Lorenzo who first shared her recipe with me in a class on another forum.

Arthritis cream? What type(s) of arthritis? One of my friends has RA and might be interested in anything that could help.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Arthritis cream? What type(s) of arthritis? One of my friends has RA and might be interested in anything that could help.

Please feel free to contact me, @Mistrael. Click on my avatar, choose "Start conversation" and I'll get back to you as soon as I can.