Soy Wax Users

[earlene]

Dean, so your recipe does actually contain regular soy oil as well as the soy wax? Or are you saying you manipulated the calculator to list the soy oil in order the get more accurate numbers for the fatty acid profile? Not sure which is the case in the second photo. If you did that, did it change the lye calculation at all?

Now, just to clarify, where is the information that shows Soy Wax (415) is 16.6 % soy oil, again? I'm not sure where you got that number. I mean, I do see the 16.6%, but that's for mono-saturated fats. I don't see how that computes to the content of the soy wax being 16.6% Soy Oil. And both linoleic and linolenic acids are polyunsaturated fatty acids, but the link to the soy wax data sheet says polys are 0%. Still not getting where the 16.6% applies to re-calculation of the soap formula. Sometimes it takes me a while, so please bear with me if it is obvious to you, but not to me. I obviously need more help understanding.

Another question for Andrew:
Or Dean if you know the answer.
Can you link a data sheet for pure hydrogenated soy wax? I couldn't find one, but am probably using the wrong search perimeters (sometimes it takes me a while to get there) to bring one up as yet. One that lists the melting point you mentioned (145 F) I'd like to take a look for comparative purposes. Thank you in advance.

 

[Dean]

Dean, so your recipe does actually contain regular soy oil as well as the soy wax? Or are you saying you manipulated the calculator to list the soy oil in order the get more accurate numbers for the fatty acid profile? Not sure which is the case in the second photo. If you did that, did it change the lye calculation at all?

Now, just to clarify, where is the information that shows Soy Wax (415) is 16.6 % soy oil, again? I'm not sure where you got that number. I mean, I do see the 16.6%, but that's for mono-saturated fats. I don't see how that computes to the content of the soy wax being 16.6% Soy Oil. And both linoleic and linolenic acids are polyunsaturated fatty acids, but the link to the soy wax data sheet says polys are 0%. Still not getting where the 16.6% applies to re-calculation of the soap formula. Sometimes it takes me a while, so please bear with me if it is obvious to you, but not to me. I obviously need more help understanding.

Another question for Andrew:
Or Dean if you know the answer.
Can you link a data sheet for pure hydrogenated soy wax? I couldn't find one, but am probably using the wrong search perimeters (sometimes it takes me a while to get there) to bring one up as yet. One that lists the melting point you mentioned (145 F) I'd like to take a look for comparative purposes. Thank you in advance.

I don’t use SO. Andrew is saying that 415 is 16.6 monoUNsaturated. Im assuming trans is 100 saturated. So the SW is partially hydrogenated but not the kind in the calc. To rig the calc Im combining SW and SO.

The NAOH is the same.

 

[KiwiMoose]

 

[Dean]

Based on this info, I should be soaping at 50 SW not 40. Im going to make a test batch this wknd!

 

[Atihcnoc]

What were you trying to learn from the soy wax as an ingredient in the soap? If you want to learn if it is a good animal product replacement or a good palm replacement, then you'd have to use it as such and eliminate the lard or the palm to see how well it replaces either. But to just add 5% and keep the others wouldn't tell you much in terms of soy as a replacement. But if that's not what you were trying to learn from soy wax, then what? I am truly curious what your goal was in this experiment.

Hi Earlene, I been busy with my nephew school, just saw your message, sorry about the delay in answering.

I tried to make a super creamy soap, the beer helps with that but also the soap is softer and dissolves faster, so I thought of adding the soy wax it will help with the hardness as well the palm oil. Maybe what I can do is to substitute the palm for soy wax? The strange thing is that I make the same recipe without soy wax and behave perfect (the elves of soap) or I was lucky.... maybe change half part of Palm and half of Olive oil or all of the palm oil?

It was not my normally test batch as for some reason (have no idea why) I thought it will be better to make a test that size.

What do you suggest? I prefer a creamy soap to a soap with bubbles.

The recipe was an experiment and I will continue experimenting with soy wax.

Thank you.

 

[Dean]

Replacing palm with 415 based on hardness is .60 415 SW to 1 Palm...if my math is right.

 

[Andrew]

Dean, so your recipe does actually contain regular soy oil as well as the soy wax? Or are you saying you manipulated the calculator to list the soy oil in order the get more accurate numbers for the fatty acid profile? Not sure which is the case in the second photo. If you did that, did it change the lye calculation at all?

Now, just to clarify, where is the information that shows Soy Wax (415) is 16.6 % soy oil, again? I'm not sure where you got that number. I mean, I do see the 16.6%, but that's for mono-saturated fats. I don't see how that computes to the content of the soy wax being 16.6% Soy Oil. And both linoleic and linolenic acids are polyunsaturated fatty acids, but the link to the soy wax data sheet says polys are 0%. Still not getting where the 16.6% applies to re-calculation of the soap formula. Sometimes it takes me a while, so please bear with me if it is obvious to you, but not to me. I obviously need more help understanding.

Another question for Andrew:
Or Dean if you know the answer.
Can you link a data sheet for pure hydrogenated soy wax? I couldn't find one, but am probably using the wrong search perimeters (sometimes it takes me a while to get there) to bring one up as yet. One that lists the melting point you mentioned (145 F) I'd like to take a look for comparative purposes. Thank you in advance.

Here is my spec sheet for fully hydrogenated soy wax I get from my USA supplier. 50 lbs boxes minimum. You can see there is not much information in there, but saponification calculators pretty much have a SAP value of 192, very close to soybean oil. So while the fatty acid makeup changes through various stages of the hydrogenation process, it seems that the various trans fatty acids really do not affect the SAP value. Trans fats, btw, are by definition unsaturated since the double bond is what makes their kinks. So there are no necessary adjustments to the lye discount. The biggest difference is that soy wax has three times more glycerin than fats and that will account for a large difference in feel of the bar.

Nut butters, especially cocoa/kokum/illipe are going to be the best substitutes for tallow/lard.

 

[RDak]

Andrew, thanks for the links and specs.

What is the price for 50lbs of the Carowax HSO?

 

[Dean]

Trans fats, btw, are by definition unsaturated since the double bond is what makes their kinks.

Looks like soap calcs treat trans as saturated tho.

 

[earlene]

Here is my spec sheet for fully hydrogenated soy wax I get from my USA supplier. 50 lbs boxes minimum. You can see there is not much information in there, but saponification calculators pretty much have a SAP value of 192, very close to soybean oil. So while the fatty acid makeup changes through various stages of the hydrogenation process, it seems that the various trans fatty acids really do not affect the SAP value. Trans fats, btw, are by definition unsaturated since the double bond is what makes their kinks. So there are no necessary adjustments to the lye discount. The biggest difference is that soy wax has three times more glycerin than fats and that will account for a large difference in feel of the bar.

Nut butters, especially cocoa/kokum/illipe are going to be the best substitutes for tallow/lard.

So, Andrew, could you be so kind as to provide a link to your supplier of Carowax HSO? I have been unable to find a supplier that has any for sale (as mentioned before in a previous post.)

I'd like to purchase some to use and see if I notice a huge difference in the end result of the soap I make.

Incidentally, do you use it to make soap or for another purpose?

Thank you

 

[Andrew]

So, Andrew, could you be so kind as to provide a link to your supplier of Carowax HSO? I have been unable to find a supplier that has any for sale (as mentioned before in a previous post.)
I'd like to purchase some to use and see if I notice a huge difference in the end result of the soap I make.
Incidentally, do you use it to make soap or for another purpose?
Thank you

the sales number is in the form. Otherwise, you can contact listed below.
Shannon Taylor
Sales,Customer Service &
Logistics Manager
Chemol Company Inc.
2300 Randolph Ave
Greensboro, NC 27406
800-849-3050 office
[email protected]

 

[earlene]

Thank you, Andrew.

I sent an email to their customer service requesting pricing and a data sheet and how to order, hopefully online. I know there are others like me who like to do their orders online rather than over the phone. One reason I prefer online orders to phone orders is that I am hearing impaired and have a lot of difficulty hearing over the phone. Even with my closed caption phone, the translation of some people comes out so garbled, I still don't always understand what they are saying. (You should see what closed captioning does with translating even my own eldest son's sentences. It's hilarious.)

Andrew, do you make soy wax soap? What is your experience with the Carowax HSO in soap?

 

[Andrew]

Chemol is a wholesale CHEMICAL company, not a soap making supply company. You will absolutely need to go through a person or email. You cannot buy online.

One thing I completely forgot about is castor wax. It has a very high melting temperature (85˚C) and I believe is 12-hydroxystearic acid.

 

[Dawni]

One thing I completely forgot about is castor wax. It has a very high melting temperature (85˚C) and I believe is 12-hydroxystearic acid.

I came across this while looking for soy wax but there's a range of sap values, and I'm not sure which one to use. Have you tried it @Andrew? I have a thread on not so common waxes for soap, for people who need more info in the future.. Maybe you're even familiar with some others. Could we maybe discuss castor wax there and keep this thread solely for soy wax?

 

[Andrew]

I came across this while looking for soy wax but there's a range of sap values, and I'm not sure which one to use. Have you tried it @Andrew? I have a thread on not so common waxes for soap, for people who need more info in the future.. Maybe you're even familiar with some others. Could we maybe discuss castor wax there and keep this thread solely for soy wax?

sap value right in the specs AKA 180

https://bulknaturaloils.com/castor-wax-flakes.html#product_tabs_additional_tabbed

 

[earlene]

Chemol (not shannon, but someone else) responded to my email and said they sell per pallet, which is 2000 pounds of product according to the email. The cost per pallet (prior to shipping from N.C.) is $3,760.00 US.

They will sell less for evaluation purposes, so I suppose I could purchase one 50 pound bag on spec. Then never place another order, because they probably wouldn't do that twice with the same buyer. I expect the per pound price would go up plus the shipping cost would be another factor. So, at this point, I am not sure what the cost would be, but I am guessing around $150 - $200.00 US. But that depends on the shipping method used; it could be even more.

I am awaiting a response to my inquiry regarding purchasing only one bag. We shall see. If the price is as high as I suspect, it's probably more cost effective to stick to the 415 soy wax as I can order smaller amounts, costs a lot less and no added shipping via Amazon.

Incidentally, they did not answer my question about other vendors who sell smaller amounts of their product.

 

[Amy78130]

I’m so glad there’s such a wide variety of people with different view points and people with the ability to think outside of the soap box. My mind is blown.. I didn’t even think that such variances existed in soy wax! Small details an make a huge difference in outcome, both in candle making and soap making. Thank you Andrew and Dean...

 

[earlene]

Chemol (not shannon, but someone else) responded to my email and said they sell per pallet, which is 2000 pounds of product according to the email. The cost per pallet (prior to shipping from N.C.) is $3,760.00 US.

They will sell less for evaluation purposes, so I suppose I could purchase one 50 pound bag on spec. Then never place another order, because they probably wouldn't do that twice with the same buyer. I expect the per pound price would go up plus the shipping cost would be another factor. So, at this point, I am not sure what the cost would be, but I am guessing around $150 - $200.00 US. But that depends on the shipping method used; it could be even more.

I am awaiting a response to my inquiry regarding purchasing only one bag. We shall see. If the price is as high as I suspect, it's probably more cost effective to stick to the 415 soy wax as I can order smaller amounts, costs a lot less and no added shipping via Amazon.

Incidentally, they did not answer my question about other vendors who sell smaller amounts of their product.

Well that's out of the question. They want $300.00 plus shipping for a 50 pound bag. Way more expensive the the 415 Soy wax. I am not even willing to try it at that price.

 

[Andrew]

i was quoted way below that so i don't know what is going on in terms of pricing. These companies are not for hobbyists or part time soap makers since they deal with laboratories and high volume companies. So i don't know what is going on.

 

[Dean]

Well that's out of the question. They want $300.00 plus shipping for a 50 pound bag. Way more expensive the the 415 Soy wax. I am not even willing to try it at that price.

I think 415 is fine. I kind of like that it boosts lins a little bit. Plus, its so darn cheap. Its the cheapest oil in my recipe. The more SW the better!

Now if we can only get the calc owners to add 415 to their calcs so we won't have do the math to figure out the true soap properties and acids...