something went wrong.... help?

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

I've been making HP soap for some time, but just recently got my hands on some KOH. I made two small batches of liquid soap , things went well, then I stepped my batch size up...

The problem: it never set. Everything seemed fine but it stayed in the mashed potatoes stage (72hr in my oven!!!)
I made this a few weeks ago and left it to sit hoping it might get better (no luck). I tried dissolving some in water; super cloudy.

Recipe: about 80:20 coconut oil : olive oil, KOH at -3% super fat (first time I've done that, might be the problem???, seems like it would help), and I forgot how much water but it was a bit more than I've used in the past.


The pH is still super high so the lye was good.
Would too much water cause this? I don't see how too much lye would....

Any thoughts on what went wrong? Thanks

 

[elmtree]

What is your exact recipe?

 

[lsg]

Why not test your scale. Sometimes a scale will need new batteries etc. or just go bad. Try making a few small batches again. You might put you failed batch in an old crockpot and cook again for a while.

 

[Susie]

I really need the whole recipe to start guessing. But, I can give you some general answers with more specific ones when I get the recipe.

1. Not every soap goes through every step described in the books/shown in the videos. You can actually make the same exact recipe twice, and have paste look completely different. When I cook, I cook for 3 hours and zap test or pH test. If no zap, or the pH is under 10, I dilute. Period. (I had been using a pH meter, but since my first liquid soap is over a year old now with no gross pathogen growth, I am going to revert to zap testing as I will not be utilizing preservatives.)

I actually don't even bother cooking mine anymore. I mix my KOH and water, pour that into the crock pot set on high(just for warmth)with oils, stick blend in bursts until I get anything resembling applesauce or mashed potatoes. Unplug the crockpot, and drape a beach towel or blanket over the crockpot. Wait 6-12 hours(ish, whenever I get back to it), zap test, then dilute. Easy peasy.

2. The clarity test shows unsaponified oils. It does not indicate lye heaviness or safety. This is not a test that is mandatory.

3. Define pH being super high. If you are looking for soap with a pH of 7, it is not going to happen. That won't even be soap any more. It will be lye and fatty acids sitting in a bowl.

 

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Thanks for the replies! To clarify no pun intended, I was using extra lye with the intent to then balance the pH once liquid. So when I said the pH was super high I mean that as proof there wasn't a shortage due to mesurment failure. I baked it again and just gave up and added water and citric acid to a pH of about 8 or 9. It is rather clear now. I don't really know what happened, but I'm going for 0% superfat next time.

 

[Seawolfe]

You know that if you use SoapCalc for liquid soap (90% KOH), there's no reason to use excess lye and then neutralize right? (I was surprised when I realized that too). You just make it like regular 0% HP soap - once it doesn't zap, store the paste or dilute the paste.

Susie is teaching us to be more zenlike about liquid soap - it helps a lot

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with seawolfe.....makes it a whole lot easier for sure.

 

[seven]

The problem: it never set. Everything seemed fine but it stayed in the mashed potatoes stage (72hr in my oven!!!)

this happened to me a while ago too. my previous batches, the paste was hard, so i was aiming for exactly that. thanks Susie for clarifying it up. i didn't realize that the paste can look different between batches.

 

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

this happened to me a while ago too. my previous batches, the paste was hard, so i was aiming for exactly that. thanks Susie for clarifying it up. i didn't realize that the paste can look different between batches.

I must have whipped some air into it or something. The batches I had made just before turned to a solid clear block in very little time. Those likely had less water as they were made in an uncovered Pyrex beaker rather than a covered pan.
The thing that really through me off was that it didn't clear when I dissolved it in water...guess I should have waited a bit longer.

 

[DeeAnna]

"...Susie is teaching us to be more zenlike about liquid soap - it helps a lot..."

Om! :!:

 

[seven]

this might be a stupid question: so do you think it's possible that the paste is done, but the consistency is like mashed potatoes and not hard? also, does it have to be transparent? what if it's still a bit opaque?

 

[Susie]

Zap test. Ignore paste appearance if it has had sufficient time to process. If it passes the zap test, it is soap and skin safe, so dilute. If it does not pass the zap test, it needs more time/heat.

You may or may not get clear soap, but that is a different issue than done/not done, and we can troubleshoot it afterwards.

 

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

Zap test. Ignore paste appearance if it has had sufficient time to process. If it passes the zap test, it is soap and skin safe, so dilute. If it does not pass the zap test, it needs more time/heat.

You may or may not get clear soap, but that is a different issue than done/not done, and we can troubleshoot it afterwards.

I made a little batch of a liquid pine tar soap last night. It passes the zap test after cooking for 4hrs so I added water. This morning I tested the pH, out of curiosity, it was about 12! I used some before testing and had no ill effects, but I have rather non sensitive skin. Could the pH be that high and it really be done? I didn't do the best zap test, pine tar is not something you want much of in your mouth.

 

[Susie]

Is the soap completely liquid? And did you stir before putting the pH meter in? If you used a test strip, is it a real laboratory one, or one for testing swimming pools?

This is why I stopped pH testing. Too many variables, and I got 4 different pH readings from the same batch of soap within one minute. Although I can appreciate not wanting pine tar in my mouth, a zap is hard to miss on paste. I doubted (for about one minute) that KOH zapped like NaOH does. The zap is identical.

 

[Dr. Jerryrigger]

I was using wide range paper so not super accurate, but my meter confirmed, 12.3. I wouldn't be surprised if the pine tar had more water than what soapcalc expects, making for too much KOH. I'll just bump it down with a little citric acid. I zap tested it a few times before it passed the test, maybe my tounge was burnt out.
In other news I'm remaking the recipe that started this thread. Going much more like what I'm used to. I think my mistake was over use of the stick blender with a 80% coconut soap.