Something Different Guidance Requested

[Sandra@SS]

Right now it is a bit inconvenient to use out of an open top container. I have tried thinning it for squeeze bottle use but the shelf life before it won't squeeze out is too short. Pre-mix it with water and it turns into concrete.

have you considered using liquids other than water to thin it for a squeeze bottle?
what 'thinning' substances have you tried so far?

 

[Ron Munson]

Yes I called the small company that makes the detergent for me and spoke with the Chemist. No concerns with adding lye to my mixture. Gassing off was before they corrected the formula for me years back. I believe I will make a coconut soap and use my soap as an additive and see how much I can get away with.

Thanks for all of the replies.

have you considered using liquids other than water to thin it for a squeeze bottle?
what 'thinning' substances have you tried so far?

I can't list all of them I have tried. Shampoo seemed to work the best. Gave it a great smell and was a soap itself.

 

[SoaperForLife]

If it turns to concrete when mixed with water why don't you try adding a percentage of water to a portion of the product, pour into a mold of some kind and see what happens.

 

[Alzie]

If it turns to concrete when mixed with water why don't you try adding a percentage of water to a portion of the product, pour into a mold of some kind and see what happens.

That's what I was thinking as well. I wonder how the water hardened product would behave as the original detergent product vs. Being incorporated into soap.

 

[Lin19687]

I guess I am not following what they are trying to do here. 6 years making are you Selling it too ? I assume you are since you put your Biz card in the photo. I think it says Hand cleaner ?? Adn you do NOT list the ingredients on the label? fish
If you add water to it and turns to concrete in a short period of time that is an issue. If you are adding other things to this 'formula' how is it not turning into concrete also?

Sorry, you won't list what is in the "formula" or what else you add into it. With out that info it is hard to say IF you could make soap. But 1st you need to understand How to make soap. horse before the cart

 

[Ron Munson]

Update:

But first I'm not sure what to think about folks claiming I won't disclose the ingredients of the detergent that I buy. I really think that is odd.

Anyway. I made a lard soap just to get my first soap out of the way. Mixed my stuff in there at 50% by volume. It didnt keep its shape.

Made a 20% superfat coconut soap straight up by itself and it's amazing. After just 2 days looks good and lathers up well.

Next step start adding some of my stuff in and see what happens.

 

[cmzaha]

Update:

But first I'm not sure what to think about folks claiming I won't disclose the ingredients of the detergent that I buy. I really think that is odd.

Anyway. I made a lard soap just to get my first soap out of the way. Mixed my stuff in there at 50% by volume. It didnt keep its shape.

Made a 20% superfat coconut soap straight up by itself and it's amazing. After just 2 days looks good and lathers up well.

Next step start adding some of my stuff in and see what happens.

You asked for help. Without knowing what ingredients are being added we cannot help. When making soap we are dealing with ingredients and percentages that is how it works. Without knowing what is in your additive one cannot really know how to use it other than a water replacement. You ask a lot without disclosing any information so please do not think it is odd. Also if you are adding in a detergent to bar soap you are not making "Soap" by the definition of soap and have to label ingredients. How are you going to handle that?


This is a excerpt from FDA's rules and regs
How FDA defines "soap"

Not every product marketed as soap meets FDA's definition of the term. FDA interprets the term "soap" to apply only when

• the bulk of the nonvolatile matter in the product consists of an alkali salt of fatty acids and the product's detergent properties are due to the alkali-fatty acid compounds, and
• the product is labeled, sold, and represented solely as soap [21 CFR 701.20].

Products that meet this definition of soap are regulated by the Consumer Product Safety Commission (CPSC), not by FDA. Please direct questions about these products, such as safety and labeling requirements, to CPSC.

If a cleanser does not meet all of these criteria...

If a product intended to cleanse the human body does not meet all the criteria for soap, as listed above, it is either a cosmetic or a drug. For example:

If a product

• consists of detergents, or
• primarily of alkali salts of fatty acids, and
• is intended not only for cleansing but also for other cosmetic uses,

it is regulated as a cosmetic. Examples of cosmetic uses include making the user more attractive, by acting as a deodorant, imparting fragrance to the user, or moisturizing the skin.

 

[Ron Munson]

Gotcha. Apparently I was unprepared for the level of detail that would be asked.

The Mfg of the detergent listed ingredients are Surfactants, Water, Fragrance Dye. The chemist said it has a PH of 6.5

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Made a 20% superfat coconut soap straight up by itself and it's amazing. After just 2 days looks good and lathers up well. ... Next step start adding some of my stuff in and see what happens.

Congratulations on your first batch!

The Mfg of the detergent listed ingredients are Surfactants, Water, Fragrance Dye. The chemist said it has a PH of 6.5

Commercially manufactured (surfactant) "soap", like Dove Bars and Dawn for Dishes, generally have a pH around 7. Very gentle to the hands and skin. Homemade soap like your 20% superfat coconut soap may have a pH factor as high as 11, which drops as the soap cures, but will never drop to pH 7 or below. It will separate out before that happens.

The point I'm trying to make is that there are MANY types of chemically-derived surfactants, hence the need for "details". We have many members who are scientists, but I'm not one of them. They can read and understand the construction of chemically-derived surfactants and can then point you in a direction to find chemically-derived agents to make a hard bar of what we soapers call a "syndet", i.e., synthetic/detergent bar of soap.

Homemade soap is a surfactant -- the first one, actually -- made by a chemical reaction called saponification. Real soap vs chemically-derived surfactants will most likely go together like Oil & Water! NOT!!! LOL

ETA:

Soaps were the earliest surfactants and are obtained from fats which are known as glycerides because they are esters formed by the trihydric alcohol, propane-1,2,3-triol (glycerol), with long chain carboxylic acids (fatty acids). The glycerides are hydrolyzed by heating with sodium hydroxide solution to form soaps, the sodium salts of the acids, and propane-1,2,3-triol. The process is known as saponification. Source: See link below

To better understand what you have vs. what you want to achieve, here's a link that might help:

http://www.essentialchemicalindustry.org/materials-and-applications/surfactants.html

 

[Lin19687]

It's like asking for the answer to the X factor of an equation with out giving the equation. No one can answer it with out the details.