Soft soap

[Arimara]

Do you trust the olive oil? After reading so much about olive oil adulteration, I am using less and less of it. I think you could get this kind of result if the OO was adulterated with another soft oil, like soy.

That's a good point. I've used a similar recipe and have not dealt with such a soft soap. The softest soap I've made was a pumpkin soap, which I ultimately tossed after 6 months. It SUCKED as much as it smelled (The scent from the pumpkin beer used in that soap lingered and clashed with my one-note pumpkin spice FO).

 

[cascarral]

I merged the two threads.

Thanks! I'm new at this and don't get a lot of how it works! Couldn't find how to delete a post that I posted twice by accident

 

[cascarral]

Do you trust the olive oil? After reading so much about olive oil adulteration, I am using less and less of it. I think you could get this kind of result if the OO was adulterated with another soft oil, like soy.

Didn't know about OO adulteration! That sucks!

Mmm... I will ask for the MSDS but I've used the same oil for different bars and they are ok.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Didn't know about OO adulteration! That sucks!

Mmm... I will ask for the MSDS but I've used the same oil for different bars and they are ok.

If you’re buying it from a soap supplier you’re probably fine.

 

[cmzaha]

Didn't know about OO adulteration! That sucks!

Mmm... I will ask for the MSDS but I've used the same oil for different bars and they are ok.

All this about OO adulteration, when it really gets down to it the sap value should be so minimal for whatever oil they have used it will not matter when making soap. Saps are based on averages, to begin with. If they are diluting the OO with less expensive oil it is most likely a less expensive oil such as soy, canola etc and the sap value would be negligible. That in my opinion would not be the issue with making this soap.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

All this about OO adulteration, when it really gets down to it the sap value should be so minimal for whatever oil they have used it will not matter when making soap. Saps are based on averages, to begin with. If they are diluting the OO with less expensive oil it is most likely a less expensive oil such as soy, canola etc and the sap value would be negligible. That in my opinion would not be the issue with making this soap.

Good to know! Does that mean the issue with the OO is more about the longevity of the soap, e.g. soy versus OO, given that soybean oil is so high in linoleic?

and @cascarral did anyone ask about the additive? Is it Activated charcoal? How much of that did you use?

 

[cmzaha]

Good to know! Does that mean the issue with the OO is more about the longevity of the soap, e.g. soy versus OO, given that soybean oil is so high in linoleic?

and @cascarral did anyone ask about the additive? Is it Activated charcoal? How much of that did you use?

yes

 

[Arimara]

Good to know! Does that mean the issue with the OO is more about the longevity of the soap, e.g. soy versus OO, given that soybean oil is so high in linoleic?

and @cascarral did anyone ask about the additive? Is it Activated charcoal? How much of that did you use?

That is another good point there.

 

[Dawni]

and @cascarral did anyone ask about the additive? Is it Activated charcoal? How much of that did you use?

This question reminded me about a response I got to a weird crumbly soap I also made some months back. Lin was suggesting it could be too much dry additives....

I just now looked at it and the crumbly parts are very similar looking.

 

[cascarral]

All this about OO adulteration, when it really gets down to it the sap value should be so minimal for whatever oil they have used it will not matter when making soap. Saps are based on averages, to begin with. If they are diluting the OO with less expensive oil it is most likely a less expensive oil such as soy, canola etc and the sap value would be negligible. That in my opinion would not be the issue with making this soap.

I think the concern is that OO cures harder than canola or soy so at the end you bar with adulterated OO would be softer than expected

 

[cascarral]

Good to know! Does that mean the issue with the OO is more about the longevity of the soap, e.g. soy versus OO, given that soybean oil is so high in linoleic?

and @cascarral did anyone ask about the additive? Is it Activated charcoal? How much of that did you use?

I added 1 TBS of AC ppo... do you think it was too much?

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I added 1 TBS of AC ppo... do you think it was too much?

I haven’t used that much, but I believe others do. At high concentrations it with turn the lather black.

I only get weird crumbly soap when I soap cool and my emulsion isn’t quite stable enough, but you soaped warm. I’m out of ideas. Sorry

 

[cascarral]

I haven’t used that much, but I believe others do. At high concentrations it with turn the lather black.

I only get weird crumbly soap when I soap cool and my emulsion isn’t quite stable enough, but you soaped warm. I’m out of ideas. Sorry

Thanks for your insight! Maybe my batter got too cold while I was adding color or something, well, if I find an answer will let you know last time it happened I was soaping with low temps...

 

[penelopejane]

I only get weird crumbly soap when I soap cool and my emulsion isn’t quite stable enough, but you soaped warm. I’m out of ideas. Sorry

I soap at 42*C (107*F) and I got crumbly soap last week and I think the problem was that the trace was too light - almost at emulsion maybe because it was an AC soap and I couldn't really see the oils mixing well enough. Just made another batch at 42*C and took it to definite light trace and it was perfect.

 

[cascarral]

I soap at 42*C (107*F) and I got crumbly soap last week and I think the problem was that the trace was too light - almost at emulsion maybe because it was an AC soap and I couldn't really see the oils mixing well enough. Just made another batch at 42*C and took it to definite light trace and it was perfect.

WOW! Thanks for sharing that must have been it! Since I was worried about it accelerating with the salt I must have not mixed well enough.

 

[cascarral]

Hello! Anyone here has experience with brine soap?

I gave it another try on tuesday without the AC and Eos, just brine water at 15%... Yesterday I felt it was a bit too soft to cut so I just unmolded and cut today but my bars crumbled AGAIN. This time the soap is not soft, it just crumbles when I cut through with the knife, definitely not the same as the other soft and crumbling sand like bars.

So I'm wondering if this is maybe normal for a brine bar? Soap is soft enough to make little balls out of the scraps and easy to cut with the knife although it breaks apart.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with the salt % and is just another expression of the same problem?.. I can notice some slight changes in color within the bar, like tiny spots of lighter soap, similar to what I could notice in my last AC bar, although since this one is white are harder to notice.

 

[penelopejane]

Hello! Anyone here has experience with brine soap?

I gave it another try on tuesday without the AC and Eos, just brine water at 15%... Yesterday I felt it was a bit too soft to cut so I just unmolded and cut today but my bars crumbled AGAIN. This time the soap is not soft, it just crumbles when I cut through with the knife, definitely not the same as the other soft and crumbling sand like bars.

So I'm wondering if this is maybe normal for a brine bar? Soap is soft enough to make little balls out of the scraps and easy to cut with the knife although it breaks apart.

Or maybe it has nothing to do with the salt % and is just another expression of the same problem?.. I can notice some slight changes in color within the bar, like tiny spots of lighter soap, similar to what I could notice in my last AC bar, although since this one is white are harder to notice.

I don’t think it’s related to the brine solution. (Although the odd swirls could be dueto additives in the salt.) Read this thread and see if that helps you with crumbly soap:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/semi-successful-corner-pour-help.74552/page-2#post-795832

The thing with soap is that there could be a few problems that need addressing at once so you have to work through them all.

 

[cascarral]

I don’t think it’s related to the brine solution. (Although the odd swirls could be dueto additives in the salt.) Read this thread and see if that helps you with crumbly soap:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/semi-successful-corner-pour-help.74552/page-2#post-795832

The thing with soap is that there could be a few problems that need addressing at once so you have to work through them all.

I just realized this "crumbly and soft" problem has only happened to me when I've tried brine soap... I've been using iodized salt... could this be the problem? Or maybe this combined with false trace?

Maybe it's easier to get false trace when you are using salt since it gets thicker easier?

Sorry for all the questions but my lack of experience gets me really confused!

 

[cascarral]

I haven’t used that much, but I believe others do. At high concentrations it with turn the lather black.

I only get weird crumbly soap when I soap cool and my emulsion isn’t quite stable enough, but you soaped warm. I’m out of ideas. Sorry

I don’t think it’s related to the brine solution. (Although the odd swirls could be dueto additives in the salt.) Read this thread and see if that helps you with crumbly soap:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/semi-successful-corner-pour-help.74552/page-2#post-795832

The thing with soap is that there could be a few problems that need addressing at once so you have to work through them all.

This question reminded me about a response I got to a weird crumbly soap I also made some months back. Lin was suggesting it could be too much dry additives....

I just now looked at it and the crumbly parts are very similar looking.

I was checking my notes and realized all my soft and crumbly bars have 33% water as percentage of oils (or 29 % lye concentration)... I usually soap at lower %, around 28 as % of oils.

I was wondering if you soaped with similar water % when you got your crumbling soap... I have no idea of how a higher water % would encourage this consistency/soap disaster though.

 

[Dawni]

Many use iodized salt in brine soap with no problems. I've also soaped with 33% lye concentration and no issues.

The key to finding a problem is eliminating one factor at a time until you get the soap to be ok. Take the exact recipe, make tiny batches.

Figure out trace. If you're not doing swirls take it past light trace a bit. Salt or no salt, medium trace is definitely different looking than emulsion. Same recipe, just mix a bit more.

If you soap warm enough it'll come together quicker than if you soap cool so figure out an ideal temp from the responses.

Figure out how to use the appropriate amount of water. Here's a link. I suggest reading through the rest of the soapy section, there's a ton of info.

If that doesn't do it, eliminate one additive at a time.

Lastly, do research. There's loads of info on the forum about crumbly soap and brine soap and charcoal soap. Maybe you cut the brine soap too late? Maybe you should use a different cutter? Maybe you should try a different temp? There will be answers..