Thanks, KristaY. I can't believe I've been so delinquent as to not figure out my lye/water % other than my strong point is not math. I've always aimed for the middle of the road and did fine. So now I've learned. So for a 34.5% lye solution I should have been using 21 oz. water and I was using 24 oz. Not a great difference.
Sodium Lactate Problems
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kchaystack
Supporting Member
3 oz of water is quite a bit. I do not see where you have told us how much NaOH you are using for your batch - but if it is the default that most calculators use then you are looking at 28%-29% lye solution. even 1% change in the concentration matters.
"...for a 34.5% lye solution I should have been using 21 oz. water and I was using 24 oz. Not a great difference. ..."
But it IS a big difference! One is a 30% lye concentration and the other is a 34.5% lye concentration. That is the difference between soap that's more likely to gel vs. soap that is a lot less likely. That can easily be the difference between soap that is firm and ready to unmold and cut in 12 hours vs soap that might need a day or three. Maybe those points aren't important to you, but they are to many other soapers, including me.
One might argue, using the same logic, that the difference between 98.6 F and 104 F is not a great difference. But when we're talking about someone with a normal body temperature versus someone with a fever, it most certainly is a big difference.
But it IS a big difference! One is a 30% lye concentration and the other is a 34.5% lye concentration. That is the difference between soap that's more likely to gel vs. soap that is a lot less likely. That can easily be the difference between soap that is firm and ready to unmold and cut in 12 hours vs soap that might need a day or three. Maybe those points aren't important to you, but they are to many other soapers, including me.
One might argue, using the same logic, that the difference between 98.6 F and 104 F is not a great difference. But when we're talking about someone with a normal body temperature versus someone with a fever, it most certainly is a big difference.
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I don't like the Sage for lye concentration. Yes, you can input your lye concentration, but then it still gives you that range of liquid. If you use the middle of the range, then you no longer have the lye concentration you input. ETA: Apparently that is not always the case: I ran your recipe using [31.5% Lye Concentration] and it doesn't give the range for the additional liquid; only the range for the lye solution for reaching a particular SF.
I haven't tested for all various recipes, but it looks like the lowest number in the range is the one that will keep you at the lye concentration you input.
To see the difference I am talking about do a side-by-side comparison with the same recipe in two calculators, where one is thesage (MMS)
https://www.thesage.com/calcs/LyeCalc.html
http://soapee.com/calculator
http://soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp
I haven't tested for all various recipes, but it looks like the lowest number in the range is the one that will keep you at the lye concentration you input.
To see the difference I am talking about do a side-by-side comparison with the same recipe in two calculators, where one is thesage (MMS)
https://www.thesage.com/calcs/LyeCalc.html
http://soapee.com/calculator
http://soapcalc.net/calc/soapcalcwp.asp
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Oh, thank you so much. I never put in a concentration because as I said I didn't understand that properly. I just felt that by going neither high nor low was safe. I'm feeling foolish! Here is my complete recipe. Critique it however you like.
40 oz. oo, 24 oz. co, 16 oz. po, 24 oz. water, 11.1 oz. lye,3 T. sugar dissolved in water before adding lye, 2 T. colloidal oatmeal at light trace. Whatever eo or fo right after oatmeal. I usually have a nice amount of time to swirl unless it's an eo or fo that seizes, then I add more water.
40 oz. oo, 24 oz. co, 16 oz. po, 24 oz. water, 11.1 oz. lye,3 T. sugar dissolved in water before adding lye, 2 T. colloidal oatmeal at light trace. Whatever eo or fo right after oatmeal. I usually have a nice amount of time to swirl unless it's an eo or fo that seizes, then I add more water.
Using Soapee's lye calculator, it looks like your Lye Concentration is 31.5%
and your superfat is 8%
But when I go to use theSage (MMS) the results are wonky as far as I am concerned. At the MMS calculator, it appears to me that the assumption is that you already have your lye solution mixed and it gives you the total of water plus NaOH as the lye to add to your soap. That only works if you have masterbatched your lye already; or know how to make a lye concentration that you desire on-the-fly. If making a specific [lye concentration] of your lye solution is not something you are comfortable with, then the MMS lye calculator is not going to be useful for you.
I much prefer Soapee or Soapcalc for ease of use.
I never looked at it in that way earlene. I looked at their lye discount chart and determined the amount of lye I should use for 8% and then looked at their range of water as water only. As for calculating percentage of lye solution I found this:
http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/lye-solution-in-soapmaking/
http://www.modernsoapmaking.com/lye-solution-in-soapmaking/
Yes, that is a good reference.
penelopejane
Well-Known Member
3 tablespoons of sugar might be what is causing your overheating problems.
Others might say if this is excessive or not?
You say if it seizes after adding the FO you add more water.
Is this extra to the recipe water?
You have to be accurate with measurements or it will come out differently each time.
Others might say if this is excessive or not?
You say if it seizes after adding the FO you add more water.
Is this extra to the recipe water?
You have to be accurate with measurements or it will come out differently each time.
No,no. I'm not making myself clear. If it's a FO that I KNOW seizes, I add more water in my lye solution. And no, 3T. sugar is not the culprit because as I said before, I did a batch with sugar eliminated and it cracked.
I can hardly wait to tell you all...made two batches of soap with 34.5 % lye solution...one was with SL and the other one was with salt. We are at the 5 hour mark now and NO CRACKS! So my hopes are very high that it was the WATER. I am amazed that a 3 oz. difference in water discount would make the difference. I'll let you know tomorrow if it's still good.
Good news! 
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Another thought: have you changed molds recently, or still using the same ones before the trouble started?
Good news
The problem was happening in all my molds.
But today I am reporting very good news. NO MORE REFRIGERATING TO AVOID CRACKS!! The two batches I made in my new HDPE molds did not crack just sitting on the countertop. I unmolded in 18 hrs and couldn't be happier. It was indeed too much water. So now I will be using a 35% lye solution. Three-four minutes in 180 degree oven and the soap didn't stick with the exception of one log (don't know if I forgot to oil that one or what.) Actually some of the pieces I slipped off before putting in the oven. It was the first time I used the log application instead of the divider for bars. So I am expecting things to get better with more use. One interesting thing I learned. I was spraying with food grade silicone which was working well. Yesterday I didn't have any silicone so I used olive oil. It worked very well. (except one side of one log) I know some have said that oils will just saponify but the sides slid right off. So I will be trying that again. Thank you to all who showed an interest in my problem!
The problem was happening in all my molds.
But today I am reporting very good news. NO MORE REFRIGERATING TO AVOID CRACKS!! The two batches I made in my new HDPE molds did not crack just sitting on the countertop. I unmolded in 18 hrs and couldn't be happier. It was indeed too much water. So now I will be using a 35% lye solution. Three-four minutes in 180 degree oven and the soap didn't stick with the exception of one log (don't know if I forgot to oil that one or what.) Actually some of the pieces I slipped off before putting in the oven. It was the first time I used the log application instead of the divider for bars. So I am expecting things to get better with more use. One interesting thing I learned. I was spraying with food grade silicone which was working well. Yesterday I didn't have any silicone so I used olive oil. It worked very well. (except one side of one log) I know some have said that oils will just saponify but the sides slid right off. So I will be trying that again. Thank you to all who showed an interest in my problem!
