Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate Powder in CP soap

LoveSonam · Jan 27, 2021

Hi!
I have recently come across "Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate Powder" in effort to make foaming soap, but that did not turn out well.. but I was wondering, whether this can be used during a cold process soap, to increase the lather? Is this possible? I am really unsure about the science behind this, therefore I have no idea if this is a silly suggestion.

Any help or insight would be much appreciated! Thank you.

Todd Ziegler · Jan 28, 2021

LoveSonam said:
Hi!
I have recently come across "Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate Powder" in effort to make foaming soap, but that did not turn out well.. but I was wondering, whether this can be used during a cold process soap, to increase the lather? Is this possible? I am really unsure about the science behind this, therefore I have no idea if this is a silly suggestion.

Any help or insight would be much appreciated! Thank you.

You can't use any detergents like that in cold process soap. It will not work the way you think it will.

When you say that you are trying to make a foaming soap, do you mean that you are trying to increase the bubbles in your CP soap or are you trying to make a foaming hand soap?

If you want to to increase the bubbles in your CP soap, you can add castor oil to your recipe oils or Aloe vera juice in place of some or all of your water.

If you want to make a foaming hand soap that you can use in a bottle, then I can give you a recipe for that.

DeeAnna · Jan 28, 2021

@Todd Ziegler -- I need to contribute info that's contrary to your thoughts.

I apologize!

Yes, it is possible to blend synthetic detergents (syndets) with true lye-based soap (a detergent that can be made by "natural" means).

In the industry, these cleansers are called "combars". Many commercial products are combars; Dove being one example. The advantages of a combar over pure soap or pure syndet --

Soap is less expensive than syndets, so including soap => product that is cheaper to make
Soap doesn't clean or lather well in hard water, syndets aren't affected by hard water
A blend of detergents tends to be milder to the skin than a single detergent

I haven't tried adding syndets to bar soap (yet). I've played around with adding small amounts of syndets (under 5% by weight) to liquid soap and found this works fine. No weirdness except some syndets will thicken liquid soap and some don't. I haven't tried syndets in bar soap yet, but others have. There have been the occasional thread about adding syndets to bar soap. Here are two I know of --

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sodium-lauryl-sulfoacetate-in-cp.45646/https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/hybrid-bars.74838/
edit-- Soap is anionic (negatively charged), and you don't want to mix soap with a cationic surfactant (positively charged). One familiar example of a cationic surfactant is BTMS emulsifier. Every once in awhile people ask about mixing BTMS into soap -- it's not recommended.

Anionic detergents that are compatible with soap include sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS), sodium laureth sulfate (SLeS), sodium lauryl sulfoacetate (SLS), sodium cocoyl isethionate (SCI), and sodium C14-C16 Olefin sulfonate (Bioterge).

Polysorbate 80 (PS80) is non-ionic, and cocamidopropyl betaine (CAPB) is amphoteric. --end edit

If you sell soap, be advised a combar is not considered true soap and you cannot sell it under the minimal regs for true lye-based soap. The labeling for a combar has to conform to the FDA rules for cosmetics.

GemstonePony · Jan 28, 2021

I've yet to try adding SCI to soap, but I love it in my (syndet) shampoo. It's the thickener/hardener in my shampoo bars, so be advised that it may thicken your batter if you're soaping warm, and if your soap gels it may act as an extra hardener. Having not tried it, I can't guarantee that's what it will do, but just something to keep in mind as a possibility. If you try it, let us know how it goes!

Todd Ziegler · Jan 30, 2021

DeeAnna said:
@Todd Ziegler -- I need to contribute info that's contrary to your thoughts. I apologize!

Yes, it is possible to blend synthetic detergents (syndets) with true lye-based soap (a detergent that can be made by "natural" means).

In the industry, these cleansers are called "combars". Many commercial products are combars; Dove being one example. The advantages of a combar over pure soap or pure syndet --

Soap is less expensive than syndets, so including soap => product that is cheaper to make
Soap doesn't clean or lather well in hard water, syndets aren't affected by hard water
A blend of detergents tends to be milder to the skin than a single detergent

I haven't tried adding syndets to bar soap (yet). I've played around with adding small amounts of syndets (under 5% by weight) to liquid soap and found this works fine. No weirdness except some syndets will thicken liquid soap and some don't. I haven't tried syndets in bar soap yet, but others have. There have been the occasional thread about adding syndets to bar soap. Here are two I know of --

https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/sodium-lauryl-sulfoacetate-in-cp.45646/https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/hybrid-bars.74838/
edit-- Soap is anionic (negatively charged), and you don't want to mix soap with a cationic surfactant (positively charged). One familiar example of a cationic surfactant is BTMS emulsifier. Every once in awhile people ask about mixing BTMS into soap -- it's not recommended.

Anionic detergents that are compatible with soap include sodium lauryl sulfate (SLS), sodium laureth sulfate (SLeS), sodium lauryl sulfoacetate (SLS), sodium cocoyl isethionate (SCI), and sodium C14-C16 Olefin sulfonate (Bioterge).

Polysorbate 80 (PS80) is non-ionic, and cocamidopropyl betaine (CAPB) is amphoteric. --end edit

If you sell soap, be advised a combar is not considered true soap and you cannot sell it under the minimal regs for true lye-based soap. The labeling for a combar has to conform to the FDA rules for cosmetics.

I don't mind because I have learned something. I thought that you couldn't add it.

LoveSonam · Jan 30, 2021

Thank you, everyone, for adding their ideas and thoughts about SCI. I just wanted to add it for the "bubbles" to my bar of soap but I completely understand your point DeeAnna about it not being true to lye-based soap!

DeeAnna · Jan 30, 2021

I don't think of myself as a purist about soap, but I doubt I'd make a blended soap + syndet bar, and try to sell it at the gift shop. I think people are attracted to handcrafted soap because of it's perceived "naturalness" or "purity" or simply that it's an alternative to commercial cleansers. A cleanser that's formulated something more like Dove just doesn't quite fit into that mold, IMO, even if the soap itself is handmade.