Soaps and all the extra additives...

[jenneelk]

Bear with me on this. lol
SO.. something has been on my mind since about the first week I came on here. When starting my research into 'soaping' I knew that using natural soap would move me away from commercial ones with additives and extras like SLS which was my first goal. I also assumed that adding extra items in would allow me to help my skin a little with rich oils, herbs, etc.
But about a week after being on here I realized I heard the terms 'it just washes off' several times in relation to spending money on pricey items. Argan oil was one of them. And while I know I don't need pricey Argan oil to get a benefit.. I can't get past that 'it just washes off' part.
Since then I have wondered off and on if everything with soap basically washes off then why do we even add anything more than basic necessities that allow us to be cleaned without being too harsh? Why the oatmeals, the avacado, the calendula, etc.? Is it just for the experience and nothing more?
Is there a point where things don't just wash off? I know superfat adds to keeping the soap from being too cleansing but does it also allow oils to stick a little afterwards and make herbs and such beneficial?
I know it's a lot of questions but I'm really curious about this since I obviously am loving making soap and def will be making more. I was planning to do a soap with my current infusions of calendula, comfrey and Plantain but paused because I started thinking about all of this.
Appreciate any help on this and for reading this far.

 

[Mommysoaper]

In my opinion an extra "additives" to soap will have very limited benefits to our skin due to the wash off nature of soap. It's just not on our skin long enough to do much. Plus, who's to say what benefits are left after the saponification process occurs? Now, that being said, I think some additives can make a soap "feel" great on your skin. For example, I make a soap using a cucumber puree and aloe vera juice. Sounds like a great soap but I had my doubts as to how much more "special" it would be versus my basic recipe. I made it, allowed it to cure and tried it and I love it! I love my basic recipe, but for some reason adding the cucumber purree and aloe created a ton of bubbles (which I love) and my skin was nice and soft. So, sure a basic recipe can be great in and of itself, but hey, experiment away! You may surprise yourself by what you find. Plus, experimenting lets you make more soap

 

[savonierre]

I make a soap with a fresh avocado and cream, it feels divine on the skin. Lanolin and egg soap is also a time when I think additives do well in a soap.

 

[salgal]

Here is a great article from Dr Joseph Mercola.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/24/skin-care-myths.aspx
He states "Be cautious of toxic skin care products. When you put chemicals on your skin, they're absorbed straight into your bloodstream without filtering of any kind, so the toxic chemicals from toiletries and beauty products are largely going into your blood, lymphatic system and then directly into your internal organs."

So on the opposite side of the coin, quality ingredients and beneficial herbs are also absorbed.

 

[dagmar88]

Oatmeal adds structure, avocado more unsaponifiables and extra superfat, calendula color.

The most important thing is that the soap is 'less stripping' (moisturizing soap doesn't exist) and really effects your skin as little as possible while still giving it a good cleanse.
That can be achieved with very basic and cheap ingredients. In fact, I often prefer those over the more expensive oils and butters.

Handmade soap is seen as a luxury. While plain, unscented soap could work just as fine, people (who don't use it because of skin issues) want it to make them feel pampered.
Some additives really are helpful and do influence the feel of the soap, but label appeal and what people think it does for them is a big part too.

 

[dagmar88]

Here is a great article from Dr Joseph Mercola.
http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2012/12/24/skin-care-myths.aspx
He states "Be cautious of toxic skin care products. When you put chemicals on your skin, they're absorbed straight into your bloodstream without filtering of any kind, so the toxic chemicals from toiletries and beauty products are largely going into your blood, lymphatic system and then directly into your internal organs."

So on the opposite side of the coin, quality ingredients and beneficial herbs are also absorbed.

And dr. Oetker makes the tastiest and healthiest pizza.

The site you referred to sells (incredibly expensive) anti aging products. I strongly advise to always research how anyone might benefit from the information they put on-line. And if they have proper scientific sources.

http://chemistscorner.com/penetration-of-cosmetic-ingredients/

"Why skin penetration

While many people tout penetration as a benefit there are only certain times you want your formulation to penetrate the skin. This would include situations in which you want to improve the feel of the formula upon application and when you want to make water resistant claims.
However, these are not the reason that most marketers (and some cosmetic chemists) desire skin penetration. Many people want their products to penetrate the skin to improve the effectiveness of the “active ingredient”. You see, there are a number of cosmetic ingredients and products that claim to interact with skin cell metabolism, increasing collagen production, or stimulating some other enzyme that will magically remove wrinkles. But the truth is if these ingredients actually could do this, the products would then be considered drugs and would require much more stringent & expensive testing (at least in the United States).
In the US any product that affects skin metabolism is a drug"


Very informative article:

http://www.aromamedical.org/articles/skinabso.html

 

[squeakycleanuk]

I think alot of the additives used are not so much used for skin benefits but for soap benefits iykwim. Exfoliating products like oatmeal can add texture to the soap as well as colour interest and marigold adds a lovely yellowy orange colour to the soap whether used throughout or just sprinkled. When trying to entice someone with our products the appearance of the soap if just as important as the mildness and if these qualities can be gained by using skin safe / beneficial additives (even if they have lost those beneficial qualities) all the better

 

[pamielynn]

I'm in the camp that pretty much everything in soap "just washes off". Your skin is an amazing filter. If it weren't we'd all die when we walked outside or into the wind. I think that homemade is good, not only for what it does (feels nice, has fresher ingredients) but for what it doesn't (strip skin oils, pollute our environment). We have control over what goes into every bar; so if you dig the feel of avocado oil - into the pot it goes. Plus, some soapmakers are freakin' geniuses when it comes to making their soap visually appealing - doesn't do anything for your skin - but wow! Soap **** is fun.

Also you CAN formulate for different needs - such as more cleansing or more mild - add exfoliants or not. But sadly, most of it is just label appeal. Soap cleans, that is all.

 

[mel z]

I don't have anything educated to add. So, just my 2 sense.

Perhaps the concern of store bought soaps, or the store bought counterparts that are really not soap, is the many chemicals involved.

Homemade soap only has lye as a chemical, if made with no chemical additives, and the lye then turns into a type of salt. The SLS's and other chemicals added to store bought are of a differing nature. Not sure anyone really knows for sure what the effects are.

Adding the natural ingredients to homemade soap may not give you any "medicinal" benefit of the plant, don't even know if that has been researched if anything even remains in soap, but it adds visual appeal, and at times can make a soap "feel" better or give a "feel" like an exfoliant.

For me, homemade soap can be made to be less drying, which is how I came about it anyway, and I can add some EO's. I can't use FO's so Ivory was not pleasing and became drying, unscented Dove does have some sort of scent that activates my allergies. So here I am, and loving having fun playing with whatever I can, and jotting down the differing results.

For those that sell, there are way too many reasons to add ingredients for appeal to customers. So, just have at it and have fun! Each batch can be different, and can feel differently. It seems like a never ending playground for me.

 

[Robert]

Since you're using soap for washing, it's not a material-efficient way to deliver stuff to your skin. If you superfat heavily enough, then a little of the oil will be left behind. In another thread I mentioned how the paraffin or stearic acid in some soap-substitute bars will wax your bathroom tiles where they catch soapdish runoff. Other materials such as antimicrobials have been incorporated into soaps in recognition of the fact that only a tiny speck of it will be left behind, but figuring, what the heck, it's a convenient way to smear something all over your body or the parts you're washing, and if it's potent enough that just a little will have some effect, why not, huh? But that does mean that, say, triclosan in a soap will have a minuscule effect on armpits compared to it in a leave-on deodorant product. Last time I saw, Dial soap was claiming only to keep you from stinking 25% longer than soap without the antimicrobial...whoopee. Most of its effect will occur during the seconds while you're washing with it rather from the action of the tiny bit that gets deposited.

The term the industry uses for the propensity of a substance to be left behind after washing with a preparation containing it is "substantivity". It comes up more in consideration of shampoos and hair rinses than with skin cleaners. In most cases you have a better chance of noticing the effect of material left behind if you wash your hair with it than just your skin. So soaps that you may consider just nicely superfatted for washing your skin might be considered too heavily superfatted for shampooing.

 

[Moody Glenn]

If we use ingredients that contribute more to our senses than any medicinal claims than the concern over "it washes away" worry becomes a non-issue. If we use some ingredients to infuse in oils to make earthy colors, or add an ingredient to make the soap more gritty or scrubby or add an ingredient which gives the lather that certain extra creaminess then the addition of these ingredients is worth incorporating in your soap. Anything to add on to visual, smell and feel is great to use. Even hearing - when you suddenly say out loud "WOW! This is great!" then it is worth adding certain additives. (The only outcast is the sense of taste - remember Ralphie in "A Christmas Story" comparing different soap flavor like tasting different vintage wine? :sick Using four out of five senses is not bad for handmade soap!

It's when medicinal claims are used that you and/or customers are washing not only the soap but money down the drain.

 

[jenneelk]

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the thoughts on this because its def. something I have been thinking about with each batch. And while I would like to make a 'Calendula Soap' to see if it would help with my husbands eczema, I think I have my answer that it likely will not. The 'calendula' will do nothing but add color which my other concentrated infusions I made for coloring (like saffron) will do. No reason to use up 20 oz of my infused olive oil with calendula when I can keep it for my creams that I also use it in and it will help more with.

Guess with an eczema soap the approach should be something that is mild, maybe has oatmeal to help slough off a bit? But adding rich oils like Avacado or Macadamia to help the skin really won't make a difference once the shower is done from what I have gathered. And maybe it's not possible to make soap that will help with eczema per say but homemade will not be as harsh as some commercial soaps, so that in and of itself is a benefit?
Hope I'm on the right track here. LOL

 

[dagmar88]

And maybe it's not possible to make soap that will help with eczema per say but homemade will not be as harsh as some commercial soaps, so that in and of itself is a benefit?
Hope I'm on the right track here. LOL

Also, eczema is connected with allergies and skin irritation; so you could test for and exclude certain ingredients.

 

[DeeAnna]

I am of the opinion that most extracts, infusions, specialty oils, EOs, fruit, herbs, and veggies added to soap do not do much, if anything, to the INside of the body. I doubt that most of them do much to the OUTside of the body either. IMO, most of these unusual ingredients are used by soap makers in the spirit of experimentation and adventure or a desire to be extra-crunchy natural.

Some ingredients do make a difference by affecting the skin feel and overall performance of the soap -- the amount of superfat, the type of lather (big bubbles vs creamy bubbles), the proportions of the fatty acids, the use of exfoliants or salt, etc.

I also think a few ingredients added to soap MAY have a mild, helpful effect IF the lather is allowed to remain on the skin for some time. Sulfur, tea tree and other antiseptic EOs, and possibly pine tar are several that come to mind. If one just lathers up then rinses off right away, however, these ingredients become "feel good" additives as well.

 

[soapsydaisy]

I always had the same question and it never clicked with me until I started making lotions. With limited resources, it made more sense to use hemp and mango butters in my lotions instead of the soap. I will admit that my soap base does have avocado oil and shea butter because I like the feel that they contribute to soap but I try to avoid anything more costly than those oils. I experimented with Greek yogurt recently and I love the creaminess that it adds to the soap. A small price to pay for a little luxury.

 

[sososo]

When I want my soap to be green I put in trace some spirulina powder. I don't know if this is beneficial for skin (probably not) but I obtain a very nice green.

 

[robtr31]

Thanks everyone! I really appreciate all the thoughts on this because its def. something I have been thinking about with each batch. And while I would like to make a 'Calendula Soap' to see if it would help with my husbands eczema, I think I have my answer that it likely will not. The 'calendula' will do nothing but add color which my other concentrated infusions I made for coloring (like saffron) will do. No reason to use up 20 oz of my infused olive oil with calendula when I can keep it for my creams that I also use it in and it will help more with.

Guess with an eczema soap the approach should be something that is mild, maybe has oatmeal to help slough off a bit? But adding rich oils like Avacado or Macadamia to help the skin really won't make a difference once the shower is done from what I have gathered. And maybe it's not possible to make soap that will help with eczema per say but homemade will not be as harsh as some commercial soaps, so that in and of itself is a benefit?
Hope I'm on the right track here. LOL

why not make a small batch of Calendula Soap for your husband and see if it helps, got nothing to lose, if it helps great if not still has a great soap to wash with.
now that I use my cp soap al the time I have no need for moistizers for my elbow or my knees and feet , could be , i'm not stripping the natural oils from my skin?

 

[pamielynn]

Also, eczema is connected with allergies and skin irritation; so you could test for and exclude certain ingredients.

Yes - mild and with as few extras as possible. Supposedly lard is great for irritated skin.

 

[soap_rat]

I agree that the strongest benefit from a special, hopefully healing, ingredient is when it's a leave-on product. I do add calendula-infused oil to soap that I make for a young family member with excema. I make the soap hot-process so my calendula oil is not eaten by the lye. I don't know for sure that it helps any more than a plain or colloidal oatmeal bar (I often do the colloidal oatmeal with the calendula).

Calendula is not very expensive, so you could also infuse it into all your oil for a batch and then CP it. Otherwise, if your husband is good about remembering to put on lotions or salves, you could just save it for those things as you suggested.

 

[mel z]

For eczema, that hurts and burns. So adding some nicer oils can't hurt. Be careful of "drying oils" and try superfatting at 8% to start. Keep the coconut, palm KERNEl, and any drying ingredients low. Castile (spelling) desires a long cure, but throw one in you soaps to cure for a long time anyway, with a bar to use at first, it is different and "slimy" when used young though and he may not like it.

If you know what he may be allergic to, avoid that.

Try the basic bar, don't use FO's they do cause reactions to sensitive skin, if you want to scent, pay for the EO's. He may balk at the oil scent once used a day or two of any handmade and unscented. Even I can smell each oil I used after a few days.

You could try the 50% olive oil, 25 % coconut oil, 25% palm oil (not palm kernel), superfat at 8% or higher. I have skin problems, 8% is working but I still need body butter so I am going higher, it depends on his skin and issues. You can even make a "special times" bar with a higher percentage superfat, small recipe, takes a longer cure and longer to unmold.

Goats milk and calendula seem to be the going thing for eczema, but be aware that every skin is different. Oats, not so much. Don't add scrubbies to soap. Try making "oat milk" or grinding oats in the coffee mill or food processor, soak them in Olive Oil for 3 to 6 weeks and strain well so no exfoliants are left in the soap. Oat straw is what Aveeno uses and there is no way that Aveeno adds that hard stuff to the soap.

I do think some nice oils help, but be careful, I've added too many to several batches and they are too soft. Work with his skin for eczema and his allergies and stressors.