SoapCalc Questions

[Shalisk]

I been tinkering around with soap calc, am I the only one that has trouble getting Conditioning Bubbly and Creamy much above the 'low end' while still having a nice hard bar? Admittadly im only working with a handful of oils, and I know its likely bloody impossable to get everything at the 'upper end' of the scale, but I mean I should not be 2-4 points above minimum on those three things (The exception being conditioning, that seems to go up easyish) or am I putting too much thought into the numbers?

I mean most people want a good lather, and obviously you want good cleaning and a decently solid bar ...any one have some oil suggestions?

Currently at my disposal: Coconut, Olive, Palm, Castor, Canola, Veggie, Peanut, Sunflower, Grapeseed and maybe some easily attainable stuff too

 

[AcornSky]

I've found exactly the same thing. And the cleaning score goes above the top end very easily as well, which seems like a very bad thing for a human soap.

The best I found (and this is theoretical - I haven't tried it) is

30% Coconut
28% Palm
27% Olive Pomace
15% Castor

which gave 42 hardness, 20 cleansing, 54 conditioning, 34 bubbly, 35 creamy, 53 iodine and 160 INS...

... but I know there are going to be six people along here straight away saying not to use so much castor.

Using less castor my best was

35% Coconut
30% Palm
20% Olive Pomace
10% Castor
5% Grapeseed
5% Shea Butter

which gave 45 hardness, 20 cleansing, 51 conditioning, 29 bubbly, 34 creamy, 54 iodine and 160 INS.

Again, though, just theoretical (for the moment).

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

There was a great post by DeeAnna where she explained more about the numbers in SoapCalc and what they relate to in a more understandable way. It is worth looking it up, but for the life of me I can't think of what it was called.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I've found exactly the same thing. And the cleaning score goes above the top end very easily as well, which seems like a very bad thing for a human soap.

The best I found (and this is theoretical - I haven't tried it) is

30% Coconut
28% Palm
27% Olive Pomace
15% Castor

which gave 42 hardness, 20 cleansing, 54 conditioning, 34 bubbly, 35 creamy, 53 iodine and 160 INS...

... but I know there are going to be six people along here straight away saying not to use so much castor.

Using less castor my best was

35% Coconut
30% Palm
20% Olive Pomace
10% Castor
5% Grapeseed
5% Shea Butter

which gave 45 hardness, 20 cleansing, 51 conditioning, 29 bubbly, 34 creamy, 54 iodine and 160 INS.

Again, though, just theoretical (for the moment).

Actually, I'd say lower the CO rather than the castor

 

[Shalisk]

And this INS value I range from 168-200 (or higher LOL washing with a brick) I get hung up on numbers sometimes but this is ...headache inducing

 

[Shalisk]

Well if anyone knows that post by all means let me know, because holy crap I think ill be in good shape if I can figure this out

 

[AcornSky]

I think I've found it!!

It's from this thread.

 

[Susie]

I would lower the castor to 5%, lower the CO to 20%, raise the OO and palm to make up the difference. Add 1 tablespoon of sugar/PPO to help bubblage. Use superfat of at least 7%. That is pretty close to my normal bar, and it is firm, bubbles well, and is conditioning.

 

[karenbeth]

AcornSky

 

[karenbeth]

Well that didn't work!! AcornSky what I was trying to say is I agree. Read and research that thread until you understand it and your soapmaking will advance enormously.

 

[welsh black]

Now we are on the subject of soap calc When I change the super fat % from 5 to 8 say I was expecting the numbers to change, ie if i up the super fat if was expecting the conditioning to to up and say the bubbles to go down?

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Now we are on the subject of soap calc When I change the super fat % from 5 to 8 say I was expecting the numbers to change, ie if i up the super fat if was expecting the conditioning to to up and say the bubbles to go down?

The values come from the qualities of the saponified oils, not unsaponified - so a higher superfat doesn't change it.

 

[Candybee]

I agree you should lower your castor oil. Although the numbers work in soapcalc to raise the bubbly it doesn't translate into the finished product. Too much castor actually decreases bubbly. I never use more than 5% in my recipes. The only time I use a higher amount is in specialty soaps as in shampoo or dog soaps where the extra castor actually helps the hair/fur.

I have learned through the years to use soapcalc as a 'gauge' for my recipes and not to go strictly by the numbers it is giving me. You must experiment with your recipes and rely on the actual soap results. Use soapcalc to get you started then keep tweaking your recipe.

For example one of my best conditioning, creamy, and bubbly soaps is a bastile recipe using 5% castile, 5% SAO, 20% coconut oil, and 70% olive oil. Its a simple recipe that wows me every time I pull out a bar and use it. But if you plug it into soapcalc the bubble and hardness are low and only the conditioning is high. Just one of the reasons I discovered not to rely on soapcalc alone but on the final results of the finished soap.

Also, too much coconut oil can be very drying to the skin and even make it itchy. I never use more that 25% CO in any recipe unless I am making a salt bar. Instead, I can add sugar to my recipe, about 1 tsp to 1 tbs PPO. Lowering the superfat also helps. I rarely use higher than 5% superfat on soapcalc. Also, I sometimes split my CO with PKO. Example, 15% CO with 10% PKO and 5% castor oil in my recipe along with the other oils you are using creates wonderful creamy bubbly lather.

 

[welsh black]

Thank you for that!! So the excess oil will stay on the skin to moisturise, and the excess will not effect bubbles?

 

[seven]

from soapqueen.com:

 

[Rigneylane]

Make what works for you

Don't hang up on the numbers too much. They are a guide. This is what worked for me: Number one was my skin was sensitive to "cosmetic grade" fragrance oils. No matter what I put in the soap recipe (or the lye discount), it always dried my skin. Go with a good premium grade FO, at least while you are developing a recipe. 2. 76-degree coconut oil always needs to be "buffered" by an additional butter and/or fat in equal amounts (30% CO=15% lard, 15% cocoa butter). It is such a "lean" oil, there's nothing moisturizing about it. Just my opinion. 3. If not using a moisturizing oil, will not get a moisturizing soap (extra virgin olive is far better than just olive). 4. Test the limits with the lye discounts to find where your skin likes it, because each person is different. My personal best skin friendly lye discount is 15%-18%. (I know that will raise many eyebrows, but there you have it-test the limits for yourself.) I have no problems with mold or spoiling. 5. Cure the soap for the time it needs: EVOO takes up to 5 months to cure out, but I'm happy with rice bran oil at a 2 month cure. Patience, Patience, patience.

 

[navigator9]

The numbers in Soap Calc are a guideline, but they do not tell the whole story. Make small practice batches to test your recipes. Take a basic recipe, try increasing or decreasing a particular ingredient and see what happens. Take good notes. Anyone can use a recipe they find in a book or on line, but experimenting with ingredients to always make your soap better and better helps you to understand the properties of the oils and butters you use, and what they add to the soap, and how to combine them for the results you want. Be sure to write everything down, or print out your recipes from Soap Calc, and make notes on them, so that when you have a success, you'll know just how you did it, and when a recipe flops, you'll also know not to repeat the same mistake again. Sometimes, your best soap may go against the numbers in Soap Calc.....you never know until you try. Good luck!

 

[Skatergirl46]

from soapqueen.com:

View attachment 7891

This is what I got when I put that recipe into soap calc. 22 cleansing with a 3% SF would leave my skin feeling dry like the desert. I do agree that the numbers are just guidelines. Learning the properties of the different oils and how they act in soap is a better way to get the bar that you want than to stick rigidly to the numbers. That said, 22 is way to high for me to use on my 50 year old skin and probably would be for many people.

Soap Bar Quality Range Your Recipe
Hardness 29 - 54 47
Cleansing 12 - 22 22
Conditioning 44 - 69 49
Bubbly 14 - 46 25
Creamy 16 - 48 29

 

[Susie]

The numbers in Soap Calc are a guideline, but they do not tell the whole story. Make small practice batches to test your recipes. Take a basic recipe, try increasing or decreasing a particular ingredient and see what happens. Take good notes. Anyone can use a recipe they find in a book or on line, but experimenting with ingredients to always make your soap better and better helps you to understand the properties of the oils and butters you use, and what they add to the soap, and how to combine them for the results you want. Be sure to write everything down, or print out your recipes from Soap Calc, and make notes on them, so that when you have a success, you'll know just how you did it, and when a recipe flops, you'll also know not to repeat the same mistake again. Sometimes, your best soap may go against the numbers in Soap Calc.....you never know until you try. Good luck!

^Exactly this. YOU decide what is best for you. YOU try and test, and take notes like crazy. Then YOU know. Trying for a perfect by the numbers bar of soap will drive you crazy.

Just follow safety precautions and stay within the calculations on lye. Always recalculate when changing amounts or types of oils.

 

[houseofwool]

Now we are on the subject of soap calc When I change the super fat % from 5 to 8 say I was expecting the numbers to change, ie if i up the super fat if was expecting the conditioning to to up and say the bubbles to go down?

The amount of oil doesn't change, but the amount of LYE changes.