Soap won’t gel

[BlueIris]

I made two batches of soap. Both have been made many times before without issue. This time neither one will gel, neither one would trace, even after much blending. It could be a few things, a new FO, color or a different lye. Could even be my scale. Although the scale didn’t seem off and I soaped at a reasonable temperature 110+-. My question is what to do with this liquid mess? I know how to dispose of it, if necessary. I would much rather rematch it or something. Not sure if I should add it to another batch, remix it, heat it or what? Any suggestions?

 

[shunt2011]

You could try to put it in a pot on the stove and heat it. See if it comes together. But it sounds like something else is going on. Post your recipe, technique and any additives and we can try to help troubleshoot it.

 

[BlueIris]

Might try that. The recipes are good as I have used them many times with no problems. I did use a new FO, color and flaked lye, rather than the granular type I have used in the past. I’m leaning toward a failure in measurement because of the percentage of liquid that separates and won’t blend. Even though my scale seems fine, I’m going to replace it and see before I waste anymore expensive materials.

 

[lsg]

How old is your lye?

 

[BlueIris]

Just got it, so it’s new.

 

[MKLonestar]

You said you used a new lye...did you make sure it was Sodium Hydroxide and not Potassium Hydroxide? If Potassium Hydroxide, then that could be the main issue

 

[Misschief]

What MKLonestar said. My NaOH is granular; my KOH comes as flakes.

 

[BlueIris]

Ohhh no. I can’t believe it! You are correct. I ordered KOH rather than NaOH because I thought flakes would be easier to work with than granular. No wonder my old recipes were not behaving as expected. Now I’ve got two batches made with KOH to figure out what to do with. Thank you for making me see the obvious and stop making more messes.

 

[DeeAnna]

You aren't the only one, BlueIris, who has made that mistake! Welcome to the club.

You need about 1.4 times more KOH than NaOH to do the same job of saponification.

You might recalculate your recipe -- enter the weights of the fats exactly as in the original recipe. Set the lye concentration (not water as % of fats) to 25%. Choose KOH instead of NaOH. Set your superfat to no more than 3%. If you're using SoapCalc, Soapee, or other calc that let you choose the KOH purity, you may also want to set the KOH purity to 90%, since most KOH is not as pure as NaOH.

The revised recipe will give you a direction to go if you want to fix the batches.

 

[BlueIris]

Yes, I do want to fix my soapy mess because the recipes are wonderful and use some expensive oils. Glad I’m not the only soaper making these mistakes! I will recalculate using your recommendations and will post the results. Thank you so much for the help, not to mention I’ve got 8lbs of KOH to use up, so this sure does help.

 

[MKLonestar]

Ohhh no. I can’t believe it! You are correct. I ordered KOH rather than NaOH because I thought flakes would be easier to work with than granular. No wonder my old recipes were not behaving as expected. Now I’ve got two batches made with KOH to figure out what to do with. Thank you for making me see the obvious and stop making more messes.

I am glad that this thought just suddenly "popped" into my head. As I was reading what you had posted and agonizing over what could have gone wrong, that was when it dawned on me it had to be the change in the lye. I am glad there are solutions for you to fix it and all is not lost. Just think, now you can start broadening your soaping horizons and get into liquid soap making as well. Good luck with this new endeavor.

 

[psfred]

You can re-batch with added KOH, but it's going to be very soft.

 

[DeeAnna]

Yes, KOH makes a soft soap. I missed making that point earlier -- my bad. You can use KOH soap in its firmer paste form or you can dilute it to make a liquid soap.

Soapers who use KOH by mistake come here for help several times a year, and they end up learning how to make liquid soap, accidentally like. The ones who mistakenly use sodium carbonate or potassium carbonate rather than sodium hydroxide to make soap are harder to help.

 

[BlueIris]

Never thought I would be someone who makes those kind of mistakes but it happens, even after soaping several years. I did recalculate the recipes, thank you DeeAnna for the suggestion. It was nasty stuff to get out of my Christmas molds. It had separated and the color stuck to the cocoa butter, sunk to the bottom, with the lighter oils floating on top. I remixed it with a stick blender in a warm water bath. It foamed up, got to a whipped cream texture and I threw it in a block mold. Not sure if it’s going to separate again but I do have lots of KOH now so I reluctantly will learn how to make soft/liquid soap.

 

[penelopejane]

You can also use KOH at 5% to bar sop recipes. Use the tab to do this in soap calc and other calculators and search for many posts here.

For many recipes this should reduce the slime some encounter with high OO soap and increase bubbles but not make it soft. Many people here do this.

 

[DeeAnna]

I thought you've said you don't see any benefit to the KOH, @penelopejane -- am I mis-remembering?

 

[penelopejane]

DeeAnna
I keep trying to test KOH at 5% as so many say they see a benefit!

The above post, though, doesn’t say I find a benefit but only that many people do. I know a lot of US soapers get high OO slime too - still haven’t worked out exactly why that is compared to Aussie OO soap which isn’t slimy. I was trying to be helpful not deceitful.

 

[BlueIris]

I will try the KOH @5% and see if I notice a difference. I appreciate everyone’s input and suggestions because I have about 8lbs of the stuff to use up. Since I am not a big fan of liquid soap I hope to be able and use it in a different way.

 

[DeeAnna]

Deceitful? Oh, gosh, no -- you aren't that at all, PenelopeJane. I have never once thought that about you. I apologize for my poor choice of words!

I was just curious to see if you had perhaps seen any benefit since some time has passed. Thanks for sharing your perspective.

 

[penelopejane]

The problem is that:
a) I find it difficult to assess the difference between 5% KOH and non KOH soap.
b) my main testers are men "it's soap isn't it?"
c) I have quite a few different recipes

So far, in my assessment of my soap, I think additives and cure times make more difference to a soap than 5% KOH. But if I wanted to produce a soap quickly (under 6 weeks) then 5% KOH might make a bit of a difference. I usually cure for 12 weeks minimum.