Soap too cleansing

[claireobell]

Hi guys and gals my name is Claire and my niece calls me claire bear! I've been reading these threads for a week now and thought it time I stop stalking you all and introduce myself! I've been making soap for 6 months now, I started with melt and pour but that was too easy and not enough room for creativity! I have made 6 cp batches so far and am using the first 2 already (after 6 week cure)and hubby and I are loving them! The only thing I'm finding is they feel a bit too cleansing! Any info on which oils/additives will make it more moisturising would be much appreciated, have tried coconut milk but that's still curing! Anyway nice to meet you

 

[claireobell]

Also soap making equipment should come with a warning that soaping may become a life engulfing addiction! Need my fix!

 

[IrishLass]

Welcome to the addiction (and forum), Claire!

Regarding soap that feels too cleansing....... off the top of my head, here are a couple of different things to choose from that you can do:

1) You can go easy on the oils that are high in cleansing properties, such as coconut oil, palm kernel oil and babassu oil. Those 3 are also the ones that lend lots and lots of fluffy-type bubbles to soap lather, so you don't want to totally avoid them, but just tweak your recipe to bring the levels down to where your soap doesn't feel too drying/cleansing to your skin anymore.

2) Or, you can use as much of the bubbly/cleansing oils as you want in order to get the amount of bubblage you want, but increase your superfat level enough to compensate so that your soap doesn't make you go screaming for the lotion. This one is a tricky one to do because too much of a superfat can also cut in on your bubblage, and/or open the door to DOS formation, depending on which other oils/fats you use and how you formulate things, etc... It takes some experimentation to hit the right balance, but it most definitely can be done.

IrishLass

 

[Cactuslily]

Welcome Claire! I'm new to CP too, and this group of people are amazing! Glad you introduced yourself

 

[claireobell]

Welcome to the addiction (and forum), Claire!

Regarding soap that feels too cleansing....... off the top of my head, here are a couple of different things to choose from that you can do:

1) You can go easy on the oils that are high in cleansing properties, such as coconut oil, palm kernel oil and babassu oil. Those 3 are also the ones that lend lots and lots of fluffy-type bubbles to soap lather, so you don't want to totally avoid them, but just tweak your recipe to bring the levels down to where your soap doesn't feel too drying/cleansing to your skin anymore.

2) Or, you can use as much of the bubbly/cleansing oils as you want in order to get the amount of bubblage you want, but increase your superfat level enough to compensate so that your soap doesn't make you go screaming for the lotion. This one is a tricky one to do because too much of a superfat can also cut in on your bubblage, and/or open the door to DOS formation, depending on which other oils/fats you use and how you formulate things, etc... It takes some experimentation to hit the right balance, but it most definitely can be done.

IrishLass

Thanks for that! I'm always on soapcalc trying to make a good recipe to call my own after trying other recipes from books /Internet. Seems to be a compromise between having a hard bubbly soap to having a moisturising one! Will keep trying! I see your name is irish lass,are you in Ireland? I'm from nz but am living in Ireland for a while, would you be interested in swapping a couple of soaps so I can get some feedback? Would need to wait a few weeks until they are cured!

 

[IrishLass]

I see your name is irish lass,are you in Ireland? I'm from nz but am living in Ireland for a while, would you be interested in swapping a couple of soaps so I can get some feedback? Would need to wait a few weeks until they are cured!

Hi Claire- in spite of my username, I don't live in Ireland, although I've always wanted to visit there! I just have an Irish heritage (my paternal side of the family hailed from Cork, Ireland). The last time any of my family was in Ireland, though, was in the 1840's when they set sail for America (where I live).


IrishLass

 

[LittleCrazyWolf]

Welcome Claire!

I'm new here myself but lurked for a long time so I know how you feel fellow stalker.

As for your soap being too cleansing...I had the same problem. I realized that I was using too much coconut oil (sometimes up to 30%). I love the bubbly lather that I get from lots of coconut oil but I don't love having to run for the lotion after a shower. I dropped my coconut oil down to 15% and upped the superfat to 7%. My soap still cleans just fine and my skin feels great. My husband on the other hand likes a more cleansing soap so I made him a batch using 25% coconut oil and 5% superfat.

Also, I have to tell you that I am insanely jealous that you are living in Ireland! It looks like a beautiful country and I have always wanted to visit.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Hi clairebear (I have a friend called Claire and I call her clairebear, too)

Can you let us know your recipe? There might well be something obvious that people can fix right there

 

[Seawolfe]

Hi and welcome! My BFF lives in Ireland, and I should be going to NZ in the next couple of weeks!

My first recipes were 30% coconut oil and 70% olive oil because thats all I had, and I found them way too cleansing - but hubby loves them. I found if I tweaked the superfat up to about 8% they were good for my skin too.

One thing I have learned about soap calc is that even a soap with a zero in cleansing will still clean! So I basically keep it pretty low now, even below the recommended levels, unless Im making a laundry soap, or one for grubby paws.

 

[pamielynn]

Remember, too, that most of us forget what "clean" feels like. Lots of commercial soaps and body washes add silicones or mysterious "moisturizing creams" to cover up the high cleansing factor that they have. This can leave a layer of goo (for lack of a better term) on your skin. Now, using real soap feels different because you don't need to add any type of goo, so you actually have clean skin. See how you feel after a shower without putting on any lotion afterwards. If you are not feeling dried out, then I'll be willing to bet that your soap isn't too drying. If you ARE feeling dried out, then yea, maybe you need to lower your coconut percentage.

 

[DeeAnna]

I think it's a myth that soap can be moisturizing or otherwise conditioning. It can be "stripping" to the oils and proteins on the skin surface or it can be "not stripping". The more lauric and myristic acids in the soap (supplied by coconut oil, palm kernel, or babassu), the more stripping the soap will be. The advice being given to reduce the coconut, palm kernel, or babassu and increase the palm, lard, tallow, olive, and other liquid fats is good.

It's my opinion that raising the amount of superfat in any particular recipe mostly functions to interfere with the soap's ability to strip the skin of fats and proteins. We're giving the dog a treat, so to speak, to distract it from its prey. I don't think a high superfat can add a lot of conditioning to the skin -- yes, I completely agree a film of superfat may remain on the skin after the soap is rinsed off, but it's going to be a really, really thin film. The more efficient way to add fat to the skin's surface and soothe and condition the skin is by using a leave-on product like a lotion.

 

[franinfrance]

Hi DeeAnna

Thanks for that interesting take on super fatting. Does it mean, in your opinion then, that any super fatted soap is in fact simply reducing the amount of oil it takes from the skin in the first place? In other words, if we assume that any of the 'dirt' on the skin naturally mixes with the oil on your skin, then a super fatting reduces the efficiency of cleansing?

Just interested really. I am about to make my first sample batch of 100% coconut oil soap. Just to see how it goes. The advice seems to be firstly, to superfat it to 20% and secondly, cut it quickly after pouring. Would be interested in your opinion.

I've been shadowing this site for a few months and am now on my 8th batch of soap and have just started giving it to friends and family and think maybe I'm going to have to keep making more for them as well as me!!

 

[DeeAnna]

In a nutshell, yes, that's my opinion. There will be a greater change due to higher superfatting for the soaps with higher lauric and myristic acid content vs. soaps that are low in these fatty acids. That's why you see coconut oil soaps being superfatted at 20%, but a considerably lower superfat for olive oil soaps. Just my opinion, however, not gospel truth.

"... The advice seems to be firstly, to superfat it to 20% and secondly, cut it quickly after pouring. Would be interested in your opinion...."

That's what people do and it seemed to work fine for the batch I made early on in my soapmaking adventures. I haven't made another batch like that, because I learned I would rather formulate a soap to be mild with a low % of superfat, rather than build the mildness with higher superfat.

I know I'm in the minority here, but I strongly suspect higher superfat can contribute to rancidity (aka DOS), all other things being equal, especially for recipes with unsaturated fats. I know for a fact that high superfat reduces the amount of lather.

 

[pamielynn]

Even with my own opinion, I do share DeeAnna's opinion on soap. Soap does not moisturize. Your skin feels better because it's not being stripped or covered with crud. With handmade soap you can clean it without constantly irritating it like with commercial soap.

I also believe that the higher the superfat, that faster the soap can seem to go rancid because you've got a lot of free oil hanging around. Just bring one bar of 10% discount soap to an August market in Texas and watch what happens, LOL.

 

[navigator9]

After making and using handmade soap for some years now, I am also of the opinion that soap does not moisturize the skin. It does improve the quality of the skin though, with repeated use, because it allows the skin to not be stripped of it's natural oils. I also think that it's possible to formulate a really nice soap with just basic ingredients, no fancy schmancy oils necessary. It comes down to balance. When I was starting out, and trying to formulate my basic recipe, I took the ingredients and tweaked them silly. A little more of this, a little less of that, many batches over time and testing, tweaking until finally I had a recipe I was happy with. And I also agree with the idea that higher superfat increases the chance of DOS. Work on finding the right balance between your ingredients, and a higher superfat is not necessary.

 

[cmzaha]

Hi Claire- in spite of my username, I don't live in Ireland, although I've always wanted to visit there! I just have an Irish heritage (my paternal side of the family hailed from Cork, Ireland). The last time any of my family was in Ireland, though, was in the 1840's when they set sail for America (where I live).


IrishLass

Welcome to the forum and the world of soapmaking. My great grandma was also from Cork Ireland before she landed here as a child. I also agree with the opinions of soap not moisturizing, I even tell my customers if they want moisturizing us a lotion after. No I do not make cleansing bars, my cleansing number stays between 10-12 for soaps made with women's fragrances and 14-16 for mens. None of these are superfatted over 4% and that number is for the men's soap, the lower cleansing number is superfatted from 1-2%. For me the feel of a low cleansing number soap and a higher superfat 5% or above are very hard to rinse off. This is just my opinion, but I do know for a fact it help how often I had to call a plumber when I lowered the superfat. Nothing short of a new house could solve all my plumbing issues when I live below street level with no fall to the lines, but not having all the sludge from oily soap helps which is how I actually discovered I like low superfat better