Soap issues

[Cindy]

I've been making GM soap for 15 years and I've rarely had a problem. Recently, I started trying a master batch lye solution and I've had nothing but problems. This last batch I made has a very thin, damp, oily crystal layer on top. It definitely zaps!! I just made the soap 2 days ago and it's still in it's loaf mold. Will time take care of this? What am I doing wrong?

 

[penelopejane]

Are you using water to make the masterbatch lye?
And then going on to make the split system of GM soap?
If you can write out your exact recipe and the method and recipe for your masterbatch lye we might be able to help you.

 

[Cindy]

Yes, I'm using water to make the master batch. I'm using a 1:1 ratio, so 12 oz of lye with 12 oz water. My recipe calls for 12 oz lye and 32 ounces of liquid (water or gm). I'm measuring out 24 ounces of the master batch solution and I add 20 ounces of milk to my oils.

 

[Lin19687]

Yes, I'm using water to make the master batch. I'm using a 1:1 ratio, so 12 oz of lye with 12 oz water. My recipe calls for 12 oz lye and 32 ounces of liquid (water or gm). I'm measuring out 24 ounces of the master batch solution and I add 20 ounces of milk to my oils.

I don't do MB and I have not had coffee yet today but,
Wouldn't you only use 12 oz of the MB and then add 20 oz other Liquid?
or is my calculation off, like I said I don't do MB

 

[Dawni]

I don't do MB and I have not had coffee yet today but,
Wouldn't you only use 12 oz of the MB and then add 20 oz other Liquid?
or is my calculation off, like I said I don't do MB

Neither do I masterbatch, but what you said it what I thought it was supposed to be.

Edit:
I stand corrected. Thanks @Michele50 for the below post

 

[Michele50]

I don't do MB and I have not had coffee yet today but,

Wouldn't you only use 12 oz of the MB and then add 20 oz other Liquid?
or is my calculation off, like I said I don't do MB

I don't know if this helps anyone but I found IrishLash's explanation detailed and could maybe be of assistance. I've been interested in MBing but haven't tried it as of yet. I'll put the quote below.

No such thing as a stupid question!

I make a 50/50 masterbatch lye solution all the time, and it's actually very easy to figure out how much to add. This is how I proceed and the math equation that I use:

1) First, forget that you are using a 50/50 lye solution and just run your recipe through a lye calculator (like SoapCalc, etc..) as you would normally do, making sure to enter the superfat % that you would like to use and the lye concentration % that you normally like to soap at.

2) Once the calculator shows you the normal water amount and lye amount for your batch, utilise the following simple math equation to get the proper amount of 50/50 lye solution to pour out, and the extra water amount to pour out for your batch. FYI- this specific equation only works if you are using a 50/50 lye solution, but you can apply this same exact equation to whatever lye concentration you normally use for your batches, be it a 33% lye concentration or a 40% or a 34%- or whatever %. :

The equation:

Lye amount: Take your total lye amount that the lye calculator gave you and multiply it by 2 in order to get the amount of 50/50 lye solution to pour out.

Water amount: Take your total water amount that the lye calculator gave you and subtract from it the total lye amount that the lye calculator gave you to figure out how much extra water to add.

For example, say your recipe calls for 5 oz of lye and 12 oz of water. First, you would multiply 5 by 2 to get the amount of 50/50 lye solution to measure out, which comes to 10 oz, so pour out 10 oz. worth of the lye solution.

Then, to figure how much extra water to measure out for your batch, take the 12 oz that the calculator gave you and subtract from it the total lye amount the calculator gave you (which was 5): so.... 12 minus 5 equals 7, so you would measure out 7 oz of extra water for your batch.

HTH!
IrishLass

 

[Auxotroph]

I've been making GM soap for 15 years and I've rarely had a problem. Recently, I started trying a master batch lye solution and I've had nothing but problems. This last batch I made has a very thin, damp, oily crystal layer on top. It definitely zaps!! I just made the soap 2 days ago and it's still in it's loaf mold. Will time take care of this? What am I doing wrong?

The lye is probably too cold when you mix. Do you heat the lye before you combine it with the oil?

When dealing with cold lye, it takes ages to trace. Did it get to trace or just emulsion? Emulsion pours tend to get soda ash.

 

[Lin19687]

When dealing with cold lye, it takes ages to trace. Did it get to trace or just emulsion? Emulsion pours tend to get soda ash.

I have to disagree with this. Since there is no proof what exactly causes Ash.

I stand corrected by Michele

 

[Michele50]

"......FYI, what I posted above is correct. 12 oz of lye is measured out (it also has 12 oz water with it due to the MB) then you add 20 oz of what other liquid you want to add. 20 + 12 = 32
I might not always be the sharpest crayon, but I can usually color in the lines...... unless you put @amd next to me I may just run it over to her color book too

@Lin19687, I'm going to have to remember your crayon and coloring in lines comment . When I first read your remarks:

Wouldn't you only use 12 oz of the MB and then add 20 oz other Liquid?
or is my calculation off, like I said I don't do MB

I thought you were saying only pour out 12 oz of the lye solution which would be 6 oz of lye and 6 oz of water. If only 12 oz of the MB is measured out it would be only a lye weight of 6 oz of @Cindy needed lye. It would also only 6 oz of her water that she'd be adding 20 oz of GM which would add up to only 26 oz of liquid. Final of each would end up being, 6 oz lye and 26 oz of liquid vs needing the needed 12 oz lye and 32 liquid.

But when you stated "20 + 12 = 32," this makes me think you are doing what I've done--intend to say one thing but say something else because my brain hasn't gotten everything lined out in its thought processes. In other words, I know what I mean to say but it doesn't end up coming out of my mouth. Your math makes me think you pulled a "Michele50" and I've done it in this forum, not this thread but in a couple of other places. Then I feel pretty dumb, lol.

That is if I am correct because I know where you are going and the math is correct regarding the liquid needed; but (respectfully) where's the lye wt. Lye needed =12 / water or its substitute needed = 32 so adding both the 12 and 32 = 44. So Cindy's 24 MB + her 20 GM =44. I hesitated to mention this, opted instead to link someone else's info on MB. I didn't want to appear ill-willed to you. So I respectfully ask instead of telling, isn't Cindy correct with measuring out 24 oz of her MB and then adding her 20 oz of GM?
(12 oz lye/12 oz water) (20 oz GM) = 44 oz

To her 24 oz MB (12 lye/12 water) she'd add the 20 oz of GM to her oils.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Yes, I'm using water to make the master batch. I'm using a 1:1 ratio, so 12 oz of lye with 12 oz water. My recipe calls for 12 oz lye and 32 ounces of liquid (water or gm). I'm measuring out 24 ounces of the master batch solution and I add 20 ounces of milk to my oils.

This is correct. Let’s say you make the masterbatch by pouring 16 oz of lye into a jug that already has 16 oz of water. The total weight of the lye + water in the jug would then add up to 32 oz., with the lye making up half of the weight and the water making up half of the weight. To get 12 oz of lye for the recipe, you will need 24 oz of the masterbatched solution. Half of that solution will be lye (12 oz) and half will be water (12 oz). If the recipe calls for 32 oz of liquid total, you will still need 20 oz of liquid in addition to the water in the masterbatched solution.

I use masterbatched lye solution for all of my recipes and also use the SoapMakingFriend calculator, which does the calculation automatically for a 50:50 masterbatch if you select that option.

 

[Michele50]

This is correct. Let’s say you make the masterbatch by pouring 16 oz of lye into a jug that already has 16 oz of water. The total weight of the lye + water in the jug would then add up to 32 oz., with the lye making up half of the weight and the water making up half of the weight. To get 12 oz of lye for the recipe, you will need 24 oz of the masterbatched solution. Half of that solution will be lye (12 oz) and half will be water (12 oz). If the recipe calls for 32 oz of liquid total, you will still need 20 oz of liquid in addition to the water in the masterbatched solution.

I use masterbatched lye solution for all of my recipes and also use the SoapMakingFriend calculator, which does the calculation automatically for a 50:50 masterbatch if you select that option.

Simply put; nice short version. I don't MB (right now anyway) but I'm going to check out the calculator you mentioned. When I do start, that might be a good one to use; thanks for mentioning it.

Wow, @Mobjack Bay, that site also has recipes with info such as the longevity/etc about each:

Pretty cool. Thanks again.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

Masterbatching makes soap making more enjoyable for me. I’m also looking forward to masterbatching oils when I get my recipes settled.

@Cindy I agree with PJ that it would be easier to help if you would give more details.

@Michele50

 

[Michele50]

Masterbatching makes soap making more enjoyable for me. I’m also looking forward to masterbatching oils when I get my recipes settled.

@Cindy I agree with PJ that it would be easier to help if you would give more details.

@Michele50

Yes, once I get done playing around with different oils I'll settle upon a few that I like for different situations and then master batch oils. Doing that with lye and oils would make the process quicker to do. My one concern is how to get the appropriate amounts if the mix solidifies during cold weather. If it's all liquid then I know I just need to stir the oils slowly to assure all is nicely blended b/4 removing the amount I need. Maybe some who MB both the liquid and solid at room temp oils will chime in here. I'm guessing I'd need a way to melt the mix which then makes it less convenient .

I suppose I could wrap my heating pad around the bucket hours before I'm going to make soap, maybe that would liquify everything so I'd just need to gently stir at that point. My 25 lb bucket of coconut oil stays melted during the summer so the palm would be the only thing I think would re-solidify within my mix during the warmer months because it never gets soft. And, it's not like the whole bucket is going to be solid so possibly it won't take a long time to become all liquid enough to stir to be certain all is blended and nothing settled at the bottom.

 

[Mobjack Bay]

I make mostly small batches, so I think my idea of masterbatching may be on a smaller scale as well. I was assuming that if everything was heated up together and mixed well and then cooled, it would stay somewhat homogeneous. I guess I better read up.

 

[Michele50]

I make mostly small batches, so I think my idea of masterbatching may be on a smaller scale as well. I was assuming that if everything was heated up together and mixed well and then cooled, it would stay somewhat homogeneous. I guess I better read up.

I've actually mixed 3 large measuring cups with my different recipes and then 3 batches of lye solution and then only made 2 of them. All were melted and ready to go but I ran out of time for the 3rd so it stayed covered and the lye also in a tightly covered container--lol, only me and DH in the home so no danger of anyone getting into the lye but still I keep a lid on it when making more than one batch.....until needed. The 3rd did congeal, but as I said earlier, not to the point that melting everything back to a fluid mix took long. I just put my pyrex measuring cup with lid into a warm bath of water and re-heated the water till all was melted together. I did a little Googling and, yes, the mix does need to be liquid so it can be stirred: https://www.cuttothetrace.com/2017/09/master-batching-for-beginners/ and http://www.bathalchemylab.com/2015/02/your-questions-answered-master-batching.html

I think my warming blanket will suffice but I did look on Amazon and find some bucket warmers that are used for making beer:

I usually make a few loaves at a time; I make soap more as a creative outlet and for personal use so I have no need to make humongous batches that I see those on Youtube make. We've got so much soap packed away in loaf-size boxes I make that I'm sure I'll be willing a lot to my kinds when I die

 

[Lin19687]

argh I am an ***** see this is why I don't do MB lol And since you quoted me I will correct it so no one makes that mistake.

I would maybe try a small 1# batch to see how the process works for you. If there is a "thin, damp, oily crystal layer on top. It definitely zaps" then something didn't work out right.

 

[shunt2011]

The lye is probably too cold when you mix. Do you heat the lye before you combine it with the oil?

When dealing with cold lye, it takes ages to trace. Did it get to trace or just emulsion? Emulsion pours tend to get soda ash.

I totally disagree with this. I use room temp or cold lye mixture and it has nothing to do with my trace. Trace pretty much depends on my oil mixture, additives, fo. I do add my cold/rt lye to warm oils. Also, I almost always pour at emulsion and rarely ever get ash I just keep it covered until it gels and cools back down. Been doing it this way for years. I MB my lye and MB my oils in 5 gallon buckets.

Yes, once I get done playing around with different oils I'll settle upon a few that I like for different situations and then master batch oils. Doing that with lye and oils would make the process quicker to do. My one concern is how to get the appropriate amounts if the mix solidifies during cold weather. If it's all liquid then I know I just need to stir the oils slowly to assure all is nicely blended b/4 removing the amount I need. Maybe some who MB both the liquid and solid at room temp oils will chime in here. I'm guessing I'd need a way to melt the mix which then makes it less convenient .

I suppose I could wrap my heating pad around the bucket hours before I'm going to make soap, maybe that would liquify everything so I'd just need to gently stir at that point. My 25 lb bucket of coconut oil stays melted during the summer so the palm would be the only thing I think would re-solidify within my mix during the warmer months because it never gets soft. And, it's not like the whole bucket is going to be solid so possibly it won't take a long time to become all liquid enough to stir to be certain all is blended and nothing settled at the bottom.

I masterbatch in 5 gallon buckets. I just give the whole bucket a really good mix. I use Lard, CO, liquid oil (OO, Sunflower, Avocado or Rice Bran), shea and castor. I melt it in a big stainless steel pot before pouring into my bucket.