Soap is wet when unmould

[kiimmii]

Hi All,

Please help. This is my 5th batch of soap and the largest batch and I failed again for the 3rd time.
I went to unmould and cut my soap after 24 hours and found it very wet on the outside with brown liquid remain in the mould. The soap still feel a little warm but firm with gel like translucent colour to 80% of the soap log.
60% pomace olive oil
25% coconut oil
10% grapeseed oil
5% sunflower oil

Total oil weight 2kg
760 water
300gm lye

And 10 ml of essential oil blend.
I checked the recipe through a lye calculator.

Not sure what I've done to cause this wet soap.
It is so wet and slippery that it won't sit on the drying rack.
Kept moving about.


Please help. I am devastated with the result

Thank you

 

[judymoody]

Hi there!

I ran your recipe through www.soapcalc.net and your recipe has too much lye. At 5% superfat, it should have only 277 grams of lye. At 0 superfat (not recommended), it would be 291 grams. So your recipe is not balanced, will be caustic and will irritate the skin and should either be discarded or rebatched. To rebatch, you would need to figure out how much oil you need to add to bring the superfat up to 5% and add it to your soap as you melt it down.

It's possible also that you might have gotten false trace and/or your soap separated because of your soaping temperatures, the excess of lye you used, or the specific essential oils you used (clove and cinnamon, for example, can heat up your mixture).

Also, just for future reference, 10 ml of fragrance is not enough for this batch. 2-3% is appropriate if you're using essential oils as a general rule of thumb although not all EOs can be used at that concentration without causing irritation. But 10 ml is only about .5% If you want to be able to smell your EO after saponification, 40-60 grams for a 2 kilogram oil weight is a good range.

Hope your next batch works out better. It is always a good idea to run your recipe through a lye calculator, even if you find it in a reputable book or web site. Mistakes can and do happen.

 

[Hazel]

It sounds like your soap is still gelling if it's translucent and warm. I'm not an expert but in my opinion you used too much water since the batch is 60% olive. I'd suggest dropping the water amount to approximately 565 grams. Also, the lye amount is too large for your oils. When I calculated your recipe, I came up with 277 g for a 5% SF and 300 g came out to -3%. What lye calculator did you use?

I can't recommend making smaller batches enough when you're just learning soapmaking. It's so much easier to rebatch a smaller amount than a larger one. It's also not as painful if you have to toss a batch that can't be saved. I suggest put all the liquid and soap into a crockpot or double boiler and rebatch it. Once it is soft enough from the heat, stir in another 200 g of olive really well which will bring it up to a 5% SF. Put it back in the mold and leave it until if firms up.

eta: Whoops! I just saw judymoody already mentioned the lye amount. Good point about separation. I'm slow at typing.

 

[kiimmii]

I double and triple check the numbers using soapcalc. And it tell me to use the amount I stated.
Maybe I should also cross check with another soap calculator next time.

Is rebatching my only option to rescuing the soap. I definitely don't want to throw it out.
It will break my heart

I will definitely stick to smaller batches from now.
This is my second attempt at bigger batch and failed again.

Thank you so much for your help. It made me feel a little better.

 

[Hazel]

At least you'll have a nice batch after you rebatch it.

 

[kiimmii]

Thank you judymoody and Hazel.
Maybe I am not using the calculator correctly.
Is there a trick to using it ? I select my oil and then add the percentage and then it just calculate the oil and lye amount for me.

Please excuse my confusion.

 

[new12soap]

I can't see your attachment on your last post, just a black screen.

I went to soapcalc and entered your recipe as written, and got 277g of lye, same as Hazel and Judymoody. So I changed a few things and put in olive oil as "pomace" and coconut oil as "fractionated" and suddenly lye amount was 300g. Based on this I suspect it is how you are entering your recipe. WHAT KIND of oils are you using? Are you using pomace olive oil, extra virgin olive oil, what? And probably even more importantly, what kind of coconut oil? If your coconut oil is solid or semi-solid at cool temps it is 76 degree, if it is completely solid at warmer room temps it is most likely 92 degree. If it is a clear liquid that stays liquid at any temperature it is fractionated, but the lable should say so. Unless otherwise indicated most coconut oil is 76 degree. Also, there are 2 kinds of sunflower oil, regular and high oleic. These slight differences can make a BIG difference in your calculations!

 

[judymoody]

I can't see your attachment on your last post, just a black screen.

I went to soapcalc and entered your recipe as written, and got 277g of lye, same as Hazel and Judymoody. So I changed a few things and put in olive oil as "pomace" and coconut oil as "fractionated" and suddenly lye amount was 300g. Based on this I suspect it is how you are entering your recipe. WHAT KIND of oils are you using? Are you using pomace olive oil, extra virgin olive oil, what? And probably even more importantly, what kind of coconut oil? If your coconut oil is solid or semi-solid at cool temps it is 76 degree, if it is completely solid at warmer room temps it is most likely 92 degree. If it is a clear liquid that stays liquid at any temperature it is fractionated, but the lable should say so. Unless otherwise indicated most coconut oil is 76 degree. Also, there are 2 kinds of sunflower oil, regular and high oleic. These slight differences can make a BIG difference in your calculations!

Good detective work! Those are really good observations that should help to diagnose the problem here. Thanks for your input.

 

[RobinHoodFan]

recently had a similar problem but mine was not lye heavy...I think mine had more to do with separation due to overheating from the coconut milk I used....here's the thread on it if this helps: viewtopic.php?f=1&t=32787

as of now, the bars are fine and smell delicious so I dodged a bullet there....they're on the softer side but I love them! Going to try the recipe again this time using the mold on it's side for more ventilation and soaping the coconut milk at a refrigerated temp instead of room temp.

 

[Hazel]

So I changed a few things and put in olive oil as "pomace" and coconut oil as "fractionated" and suddenly lye amount was 300g. Based on this I suspect it is how you are entering your recipe. WHAT KIND of oils are you using? These slight differences can make a BIG difference in your calculations!

I never thought of entering different oils.

 

[kiimmii]

Robinhoodfan, you're right my coconut oil is not fractionated. It is probably 76 deg coconut oil. I brought cooking sunflower oil from Aldi here in Australia.

My problem now is all the soap I made so far must be lye heavy including the one I am currently using. Now I will need rebatch 4kg plus worth of soap. Serve me right for been over confidence.

Also how do I rebatch with a crockpot that would actually fit a large amount of soap. And how do I work out how much more oil to add to each batch. For example the last batch is at least 2kgs, no way it will fit into my crockpot and with Hazel suggestion of 200ml extra pomace olive oi.

Thank you Robinhoodfan for ending my frustration with the calculation. At least now I learnt to be more careful with the exact type of oil. A mistake I am not prepare to repeat.

Thank you all for your time and patience.

 

[kiimmii]

Oops I meant to reference new12soap for ending my frustration. Sorry.

 

[kiimmii]

I have been reading up on rebatching lye heavy soap and everyone is saying save the liquid from the mould. The problem is I have emptied the liquid in a bag and bin it. What do I do now ?
Sorry for asking so many questions.

 

[new12soap]

you are welcome, glad we could find the issue so you know how to fix it the next time. As for rebatching, I once had to do a rebatch with something too large to put in my crockpot, so I split the problem batch exactly in half by weight and did it in two shifts. If you didn't want to rebatch I was going to suggest that a slightly lye heavy soap (as long as it isn't TOO caustic) can be used for laundry.

If you tossed all of the liquid portion of the soap I am not sure what to do or how or if it can be saved. Hopefully someone else with more experience will have some suggestions for you.

Never be worried about asking too many questions, we are all here to learn

 

[kiimmii]

Hi All,

I've done it. I have rebatched 7 kgs worth of soaps over 3 days.
My soaps turned out fine however there are bits of unmelted soap through each bar which give the bar a rather nice appearance.

However, my hubby made a good point. He said doesn't it mean those bit may still contain active lye.
Umm that got me a little worried now because it sound logical. I had each batch heating on low heat in my slow cooker for at least 2 hours. The last batch was the longest, after 3.5 hours there are still lots of bits that appears to be unmelted, so I gave up waiting. I thought 60-70% has melted so it should be alright.
Now I have second thought and doubt whether the soap will be safe to use on skin.

Any comment would be greatly appreciated.

 

[Hazel]

Did you add the extra olive oil and stir it in really well? With extra oil and cooking it longer, this may help to alleviate any lye heaviness in bits of the soap but I'm not sure. I think you're going to have to test it and see how it feels on your skin. It's not going to burn you but it might be extremely drying.

 

[kiimmii]

Hi Hazel,

Yes, I add all the extra oil by revisited my recipe and recalculate it.
And I cook all batches at a minimum of 2 hours. But for some reason some bit wouldn't melt even after I smash it like crazy with a potato masher. In the I had to stop because my hand is so tired and sore that I couldn't do it anymore.

Thank you Hazel. I think that is what I want to hear, whether it will burn my skin but I guess what you said make sense. I need to test the ph and use it to find out.

Can't wait to try it in 3 weeks.

Soaping is so addictive and fun. Stuffed up only made me hungry for more and better turn out next time.

Thank you for your guidance Hazel.

 

[Hazel]

I've never had rebatched soap really melt down. It softens but is still chunky and then I stir it really well. I think it will probably be fine. Please let us know how it turns out. If it does turn out to be a bit drying, just give it to your favorite mechanic. :wink:

You're welcome but I don't feel I helped very much.