Soap failure

[wbocrafter]

I made a batch of soap a few days ago using canola oil 12.8 oz, coconut oil 26.4 oz, olive oil 12 oz, palm oil 16 oz (did not quite have enough palm so I added a little shea butter to bring it up to the correct oz.) & castor oil. 2.4 oz , 5% superfat, 30.4 oz. water, 11.25 oz. lye & 2.5 oz. of fragrance oil. After melting my oils & adding the lye I beat the soap with a stick blender. I was getting close to trace and added fragrance oil and mica. When I added the mica my soap started to froth as if I had added baking soda to buttermilk. I continued to beat with stick beater, poured into molds & the oil separated. I poured mixture out of mold back into pan & continued to mix with the stick blender until it looked like it was saponifying. I poured the oil/lye solution back into molds. It is hard but looks awful. The mica was blue but after putting the colorant into the oil/lye mixture it turned green. Also you can barely smell the fragrance. First question: what did I do wrong? Second question: what do I do with this mess now? Any help is greatly appreciated.

 

[Navaria]

I'm thinking maybe you had false trace to begin with, and then over compensated by over mixing the second time. What type of FO did you use (brand and name) because that could have something to do with it. Some act pretty funny when you cp them. Also, yellow and blue make green, so if your oils were very yellow and you only used a tiny bit of blue mica (or one that isn't cp stable) it could morph to green.

 

[wbocrafter]

What is false trace and how do I know I have it? Am I correct in assuming that false trace is me thinking it was at the trace stage & it wasn't? Would that cause the oils to separate? Any thoughts on what I can do with this soap now? I was thinking about rebatching it but haven't done that before.

 

[Navaria]

Is this a new recipe for you? If so, I don't know that I would rebatch it. You might just keep it as it is, and try it out from time to time to see how it ages. As far as rebatching to add fragrance, I'm not sciencey enough to know if the chemicals you have to be careful of remain in the soap when the scent disappears. You don't want to basically use twice as much scent as recommended on accident and end up burning your skin or having a bad reaction.

 

[penelopejane]

What is false trace and how do I know I have it? Am I correct in assuming that false trace is me thinking it was at the trace stage & it wasn't? Would that cause the oils to separate? Any thoughts on what I can do with this soap now? I was thinking about rebatching it but haven't done that before.

Yes, that is false trace.

You could confetti the soap and add it to a new batch.

 

[cmzaha]

ETA^^ I completely disagree with it being a false trace. Please read further down my post. Could be wrong but it was mentioned it was coming to trace not traced

I am guessing your fo rices and seperated, which you would have know if you had waited a little while before pouring. I assume you did not have a stable emulsion or trace before you poured. Unless an fo accelerates you do not need to pour immediately. Ricing can take a long time to come back together and sometimes just needs to be ph'ed. Are you sure it was a body safe/soap safe fo? If so was it a floral, spicy or water type fo? They are know to rice or accelerate. If you are sure all is body safe you can dump the mess in a crock-pot and hp or you can dump it into a stainless pan and put in the oven to hp around 200º F.

As for false trace it happens when the soap thickens up quickly due to the temps being to cold with high butter or co in the soap. You still have a higher unsaturated percentage in your recipe so it should not have actually been a false trace. Palm, butters and high co can cause false trace, but again that is noticeable as soon as the lye starts heating up. Just stir for a few minutes and see if it thins back out. You should only use a SB in short burst, stir, SB if necessary. When you stop with the SB and stir you will see what is happening

Your recipe is fine. Next time you want to fill in with a butter I would re-run your calculator entering the exact amount of palm you used then enter the shea amount. But with the 5% superfat you are fine whether you had a little to much or to little lye. So in closing re-batch and make yourself a use-able although maybe not pretty soap.

Check with your mica supplier and make sure it is a high ph stable mica. Some just list as being cp soap safe, if it is not listed it could be for m&p. Also some colors such as purples morph a few times before the purple settles

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I used a floral FO once and it didn't rice, rather set like a really thick custard would set up when left out.

But without knowing more about the FO and your temperatures, it is hard to troubleshoot

 

[cmzaha]

It may not have riced, but from the description it is hard to tel. It was mentioned that it looked like it was saponifying once it was poured back in the mixing container, so I was thinking it riced which could look like little pieces of soap are forming. As EG mentioned it is hard to tell

 

[wbocrafter]

The problem happened when I added the MICA. It just started to like lather up and then it separated. After beating I put in my molds and it never went through the gel process. Those bars are hard and ugly. This is a recipe I received from Brambleberry. I purchased their new soapmaker's kit and the soap was awesome. I asked if they would share the recipe and they were very happy to share. They gave me the oils & percentages & I took it from there. Everything was fine until I added the MICA then it went crazy. The MICA I used was some I purchased off Amazon that was supposed to be for soap. I don't know if to try any of the other MICA's in the package I received or just throw them away. I really would like to salvage this recipe it at all possible. If anyone has any ideas I'm all open for suggestions.

 

[shunt2011]

Then the mica very well may be the problem. Even a combination of the mica and FO. Also, I would be making a smaller batch if you are still in the learning process. Easier to troubleshoot problems. I suggest you get your colorants from reputable companies like Nurture Soap Supplies, Mad Oils, TKB Trading, WSP, Elements etc.

I would either wait and see what it does after cure or shred it and rebatch it.

 

[Susie]

I agree with Carolyn. When you add a scent that rices, it does not do so right away. It takes a few minutes. Is it possible that you happened to add the mica a few minutes later?

As for saving the "recipe" does that mean that you want to save that batch, rather than the recipe itself?

If you are, indeed, trying to save the recipe, you can indeed try it again (after running it through a lye calculator with the modifications) with a different scent and mica.

If you are trying to save that batch as bar soap, then you can only either rebatch (which I refuse to do as it is a pain in the neck), or use it as confetti. It is not ever going to become a beautiful batch of soap unless you do something with it.

Rebatching takes shredding the soap into a pot or crock pot, adding a tiny amount of liquid and melt it. You can add a colorant, but it will not disperse equally, and you will have a rustic looking soap.

Using it as confetti means you shred it up, and mix it into 2 parts new soap. I have seen some beautiful soaps that use confetti. Think about using as a design element- put it only in the bottom part of the soap (so figure the proportion as 2 parts new soap with 1 part confetti for half the total amount in the mold). Use a contrasting color, or no color at all if that is green, and act like you meant to make that resulting soap after all. No one but you will know the difference.

As for what to do with the other micas- make a small batch of soap and divide it out and test a small amount in each batch. You will soon find out if they are CP usable micas.

Next time, only use colorants and scents from soapmaking suppliers. It saves you money in the end to not have problems.

Every one of us has had problems like this. Every one of us. We got experience from those batches, you will, too.

Welcome to the addiction!

 

[DeeAnna]

The mica might have been the problem, but I'm with Susie, Shari, and Carolyn regarding that point. It may just as easily be a coincidence that the frothing and the addition of the mica came about the same time. Try to keep an open mind about the FO possibly being the problem until you can absolutely rule one or the other out as being the problem.

I also doubt you saw false trace. Your recipe has a large % of liquid oils. I have not seen false trace unless my recipe was well over 50% solid fats such as butters, palm, tallow or lard.

 

[dixiedragon]

Mica is usually inert. Can you post a link to where you got it on Amazon?

 

[wbocrafter]

I added the FO first and then the mica powder. It started to froth & foam as soon as I put the mica powder in. I had read somewhere that you should mix the mica's with some glycerin before adding to your recipe. Any thoughts on that. Basically I want to salvage this batch of soap. If it means rebatching it I will do that & if it seems as bad as everyone seems to think I will use it as confetti. Someone else mentioned to just try to use it. Since it didn't go through the gel process do you think it is safe to use now or does it have to go through the curing process. I really appreciate all of the input my fellow soapers have added.

 

[dixiedragon]

ETA: Do NOT tongue test until you have verified that the mica and the fragrance are both soap safe!

Touch it with your tongue - if it zaps (like licking a battery) it's not done. If it doesn't zap, wash your hands with it. It's not going to be very good - it will not lather, it might feel sort of gluey/sticky, and might leave your hands feeling very dry or irritated. Totally normal for new soap.

Can you post a pic of the soap?

I also really want to see the info on that mica - the foaming you described is very weird. Can you also post a link to where you got the FO? Double check to see if the FO is soap safe / body safe. If it's not, then yes, you need to throw the soap away.

 

[DeeAnna]

If the soap passes the zap test, it's SAFE to use now. But it won't be at its BEST right now. ALL soap needs to cure, whether HP, CP, or whatever, for best longevity, lather quality, and mildness to the skin.

 

[Susie]

I'm with dixiedragon, I would want to verify the soap/skin safety of those ingredients before zap testing or wash testing. If they are not skin safe, the batch is NOT safe to zap test!

 

[wbocrafter]

Failed batch

I don't know how to get the link here. If you go to Amazon & type in the search bar "soapmaking colorants" it will bring up several options. The one I purchased says "Cosmetic Grade Mineral Makeup Soap Making Soap Color Mica & Oxide Pigment Powder Soap Dye Colorant DIY Pigments Packed in 3 gram Jar Set" It was sold by Myo Makeup. The webpage for that vendor is www.myomakeup.com. I will post a picture tonight of the soap. The bars that I put in individual molds, i.e. oval & small square look okay. The one that came out of the loaf mold looks greasy. I'll also try the zap test. I washed my hands with it this morning & it lathered up very nicely. Didn't affect my hands at all.

 

[dixiedragon]

Link:
https://www.amazon.com/dp/B01H4EBCVA/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20

Did you notice this bit?
Myo colorants can be used by itself or blend with other primary colors for your unique products, such as bath bombs, fizzies, mineral makeup, melt & pour soap and other fun projects, and the color will not change in products with a high-ph and will not migrate or bleed between layers.
Great for soap makers who prefer to work with powders. Works Best In Clear Bases.

 

[dixiedragon]

Ingredients for Ultra Bright Orange from the Myo site:
Ingredients: Mica, Titanium Dioxide (CI 77891), Zinc Oxide, Silica, Chromium Oxide, Silk Mica, Tin Oxide. May Contain: Iron Oxides (CI 77491 77492 77499)

I have no idea if the silica and tin oxide are CP safe/stable. The others are I think.