So..exactly what IS considered natural?

[Neil]

Paul you make a great point! And I agree the soap you make and Hopefully what I make is far superior to any store bought. I hope I didnt offend with my somewhat to hard of a stance.

Its like I say to my wife.. Cook to please yourself and everyone else will
enjoy it. Frome what I've seen here, you people are world class soap makers and I'm am bless to be here.
Thanks Paul for all your wealth of knowledge.

 

[Soapmaker Man]

Thank you Neil. We are glad you are enjoying learning like we all did. I started out with more than many questions! Reading, asking, researching, but mainly, playing with the calculators and trying the soap was the best teacher for me. I'm still learning from all the great soap makers we have in our ranks too. This soap forum, family, rocks! :wink:

 

[Zenobiah]

Thank you so much, gallerygirl! I will need all the help I can get.

 

[NaturalSoapGirl]

My thoughts on natural - no parabens, no SLS, no formaldahydes, no propylene glycol (this the kicker for M&P people since most M&P bases contain this and/or butylene glycol or worse yet - Sodium Laurel/Laureth Sulfate - SLS).

Since most FO's contain EO's, but we will never know exactly at what percentage, I try to make many of my products 100% natural using EO's, dried herbs, clay, etc. The other products that I make I describe as 98% natural or 99% natural, which sure is a heck of a lot better than what is sold in the stores.

The only problem I see with M&P bases is that they may promote themselves as "natural", but if they contain any of the above listed ingredients, you don't know how much and so you can't even say "98% natural". You didn't make it, so you don't really know what's going into it. I have thought alot about using natural or organic M&P, but knowing that I am not fully aware of the exact ingredients and their proportions just keeps me away from them.

 

[gbtreasures]

Alot of the natural hype depends on what the customer considers "natural". Are they looking for 100% natural? Would 1 ingredient (synthetic, fo or preservative) stop a potential sale? My guess is that someone that doesn't understand synthetics or preservatives may seek out the 100% and may be reluctant to deviate from it. It is my personal opinion, too, that a soapmaker is really restricted if using only eo's when there are so many popular, fun, wonderful scents available with fo's. My daughter (and her friends) go for the fo by far in products.

 

[sofietje]

I think the natural discussion is very difficult sometimes. Would you rather have palm oil instead of lard? Even if rainforest is cut for the palm oil?
Would you rather have a natural rosewood EO that can only be taken from a tree that is 40 years old? So unless there's a sufficient regrowth-program it will soon be not available at all.

Natural doesn't always have to be the best in my opinion. :roll:
It's a difficult balance. Everyone looks at it differently.

 

[Zenobiah]

That is such a good point, sofietje!

For me, the most important thing is that it contains no dead animals. I never thought of the EO/FO angle for sustainable development. I know about the palm oil issue, but it is kind of difficult to get a hard soap without it, isn't it?

 

[Tabitha]

*Really* great points sofietje.

Natural does not always =better.

 

[Soapmaker Man]

Zenobiah, you can always add SL (sodium lactate) or Stearic Acid to your soaps to harden it. I use soured goat milk which produces a natural sodium lactic acid, and salt to add extra hardness to my soap if I have a recipe that is super conditioning and uses more soft oils. I have a great recipe that the conditioning number is at a 62 but is a tad soft unless I add SL or sometimes 2 to 3% Stearic Acid derived from plant sterins. Hope this helps.

Paul.... :wink:

 

[Zenobiah]

Thank you Paul, I didn't know that.

 

[WhystleStop]

Yes, but it is not only yourself you have to take into consideration, but also your customer's ideas. That is the real kicker. You may know that you have done everything in your power to make most of it all-natural but how will it be perceived by your market?

Also, check this link out: http://www.kangarooblue.com/index.php?m ... cts_id=372

What do you think? Is there preservative in it at all?

Good Morning all! I need to write an introductory post, but I saw this first...

I went to this this product to look, and was very interested that this product that is called all natural, has sodium laureth sulfate AND sodium lauryl sulfate listed as coconut in it (as well as the coco betaine and others). Did anyone notice? Is SLS NATURAL? Did I miss something?

BTW, will have to look at it again. I'm thinking they are using EO's that have been shown in tests to work against SOME bacteria.

Frieda

 

[Blondebubbles]

I wonder about all the extracts & the processes used to extract them...
they don't have to tell what they used to produce the extracts, do they?

I've been told that SLS is bad news, by a friend who is into health alternatives/organics/etc., but haven't checked it out myself. She didn't give me any details & I'd be interested in knowing why & what its effects are...You know, not even "natural" items are always good for you!

Sometimes it might be something as simple as what form an ingredient comes in..."hydrogenated" oils being a perfect example. No problem if they are left in their oil form; the problem comes when they are hydrogenated, which makes your body unable to break them down & use them.

Also I've heard that if you wouldn't eat it, don't use it on your skin because skin is porous & absorbs everything used on it. That being said, is there a soap that's safe to eat? I'm smiling but I'm really serious. I've heard of people tasting their soaps to see if they've set/cured properly. Is there such a thing as a soap that could be considered consumable?

Just more food for thought.
Bubbles

 

[MyMunchkins812]

First and foremost - I am awestruck about the passion you all put into your craft. You are to be commended

I have been researching several of the chemical compounds manufacturers have put into their products, be it for preservation, emulsification, or "foaming ability".

I ran across a site that linked to the sodium lauryl/laureth sulfate MSDS (Material Safety Data Sheet - for anyone who didn't know what that stands for) and I was a little terrified when I read the chemical information. Words like "causing blindness" and "cell deterioration" really kind of stuck out in my mind.

My husband tells me that, if they can market it in a product, then it must be safe to use. I strongly disagree.

Do yourself a favor and google "MSDS" and go onto the government web site - look up things like SLS and methylparaben and whatnot - read for yourself. It's really disturbing.

 

[Tabitha]

Everyone is certainly going to have their own opinions, and there is no right or wrong answers, but I am going to throw out my 2 cents.

Yes, SLS can cause "causing blindness" and "cell deterioration" among other things.

Driving a car can cause a broken neck or a hemorrhaging brain, but we still drive

The FDA requires this info on your toothpaste tubes: "If you accidentally swallow more than used for brushing (the size of a pea) , seek professional help or contact a poison control center immediately" That sounds scary but we still all brush our teeth! More than a pea size pat of toothpaste is considered poison by the FDA?

Salt causes high blood pressure and other cardiovascular problems.

I think it is all about moderation & I also think SLS is just the new media panic substance, next year it will be something else.

With that being said, everyone does need to make their own choices & what is right or wrong for one person is not necessarily right or wrong for another.

I have to wonder too, how much SLS (and how often) would you have to be exposed to, to become blind or have another side effect?

 

[dragonfly princess]

Ok how many of us eat processed foods? how worried are we that there are "UNNATURAL" things in it? Nuff said!!!!

 

[Lane]

I have been following and watching this thread for sometime now and finally felt the need to comment...thank you Dragon for the inspiration!

DRAGON- I love candy. A lot. A whooooole lot. It is all mostly un-natural. Un-naturally good!
***
I think the biggest concern is not how "natural" the soap is, honestly the whole "natural" thing is a selling point. If we were that concerend wouldn't we be naked, walking (not driving) and living in grass houses? NOT eating candy? No thank you. I'm all for "all natural" and the likes, I HAVE to use chemical free products for my son... but honestly, the products we make are better because they are CREATED, NOT MANUFACTURED. No matter WHAT % of "natural" our products are, they will always be BETTER because they are handmade, be it CP, MP, HYGTUP, or toilet paper.

Eventually "natural" isn't going mean anything anymore. The commercial companies are taking care of the right quick. :x

 

[Soapmaker Man]

Sometimes I use TD (titanium dioxide) in my soaps. It is the world's most widely used whitener. It is used in candy, toothpaste, you name it, nut some consider it not natural, but it does come from the ground. This will go on forever. I also think that we put out a quality product as long as we carefully watch our process and are careful about sanitary conditions. As my siggy line states; :roll:

Paul

 

[Tabitha]

Lane, good point about the candy! I , once in a blue moon, will have a beer. My husband & I were going to stay up late one night last month to watch a movie after the kids had gone to bed so I bought that rare & single beer for the occation! My daughter (10 y/o) that bottle of beer in the fridge & squealed about how beer was not good for you. Neither is candy I told her. I will never drink beer again if you promise to never eat candy again, to which she replied "I guess one won't hurt" :wink: . I do think it is all in moderation.

 

[NameThatCandy]

Maybe a little bit out of topics, but just want to share my SLS experience.

I prone to have ulcers in my gum, and it takes about a week to recover. Then I looked at the ingredients about my toothpaste, I found there is SLS in it. And one of the side effects of SLS is to cause aphthous ulcers in certain individuals.

Then I stopped using any toothpastes contain SLS, u know what, I am ulcers free for months. I used to have at least once a month. Sometimes I had 2 or 3 ulcers at the same time.

I know it doesn't affect everyone, but to some people, SLS can be very bad.

And when I shop for soaps, if I see SLS in it, I won't put it back on the shelf immediately. The whole reason I buy handmade soaps is because they are better than commerical soap. I can buy SLS commerical soaps for much cheaper. Maybe just me. I know a lot of ppl don't really care.

 

[Lane]

And when I shop for soaps, if I see SLS in it, I won't put it back on the shelf immediately. The whole reason I buy handmade soaps is because they are better than commerical soap. I can buy SLS commerical soaps for much cheaper. Maybe just me. I know a lot of ppl don't really care.

My son is very allergic to chemicals of any kind...SLS is a main one...

In relation to teeth... My teeth have little to no enamel and I have to use floride rinse constantly and can't brush them... Mouth problems suck...