Shave Soap Puck vs Cup

[DWinMadison]

I’ve read all the posts from the “Ancient Ones” on shave soap, but I have questions for the current generation. I ordered some stainless silver bowls to make shave soaps. I was think of making pucks with the assumption that it was as simple as cold process with more CO and castor than regular bar soap. THEN I started seeing all the old posts saying: 1) You can only make “real” shave soap using hot process (which I’ve never done)? and 2) “real” shave soap is made with KOH (which I’ve also never used).

Questions:

Is KOH and hot process the gold standard?
If so, how would you ever cut gummy KOH soap cut into pucks to package?

Clearly, I’m a shaving cream kinda guy but who know I might go full Parisienne in retirement /:{>

 

[shunt2011]

I can only speak of my experience. I’m no pro but have made quite a few batches but tweaked a bit from the original thread. I make it with KOH and HP. I pour it into low profile 8 oz jars but also make pucks that fit in the jar when finished. My husband and several of his friends like they can just drop a new puck in the jar when done. I’ve never made CP shave soap so can’t speak to it.

After it sets out to cure (puck) it fairly hard enough to shrink wrap or i have wrapped them in unbleached coffee filters.

 

[snappyllama]

The reason folks HP shave shave is that you need a lot of stearic acid to create that super thick foam. Stearic acid really has to be hot processed as it instantly reacts. The inclusion of KOH is to soften the puck so it is easy to whip up lather. The inclusion doesn't make gummy soap - it's just a bit less hard than a regular soap. I use a pringles container as my mold and use my regular wire cutter to slice into pucks the day after I make it.

Before making shave soap, I also hadn't hot processed... if I can do it - you definitely can!

I think you can still use your bowls - just pour into them.

 

[steffamarie]

I made a shave soap with KOH only and HP - it's quite easy to do even though I had never done it before. It was never pourable so I smooshed some into my plastic bail jars and the rest I just wrapped in freezer paper and rolled into a log. After letting it cool, it hardened up plenty to be able to cut into pucks and then they've been drying for six months or so and they're relatively hard. I think for a bowl, I would want to smoosh soap into it rather than make a puck, purely because I would think it would be easier for a puck to slide (read: fall) out.

 

[DWinMadison]

The reason folks HP shave shave is that you need a lot of stearic acid to create that super thick foam. Stearic acid really has to be hot processed as it instantly reacts. The inclusion of KOH is to soften the puck so it is easy to whip up lather. The inclusion doesn't make gummy soap - it's just a bit less hard than a regular soap. I use a pringles container as my mold and use my regular wire cutter to slice into pucks the day after I make it.

Before making shave soap, I also hadn't hot processed... if I can do it - you definitely can!

I think you can still use your bowls - just pour into them.

LOL...you give me WAY too much credit. Would one of you guys shoot me a recipe? I did see that most recipes call for stearin acid (another new adventure for my) so I ordered some yesterday. I know it’s heresy to soap in the same pot you cook in, but if I buy/make on more piece of soap paraphernalia Janice is going to assign me to the couch. So, I’m gonna do this in my InstantPot in slow-cooker mode since it has a stainless liner.

I made a shave soap with KOH only and HP - it's quite easy to do even though I had never done it before. It was never pourable so I smooshed some into my plastic bail jars and the rest I just wrapped in freezer paper and rolled into a log. After letting it cool, it hardened up plenty to be able to cut into pucks and then they've been drying for six months or so and they're relatively hard. I think for a bowl, I would want to smoosh soap into it rather than make a puck, purely because I would think it would be easier for a puck to slide (read: fall) out.

Thanks Steph. I wondered about the move-around-the-bowl factor, but you’ve gotta have refills at some point. It also seems like water would collect under a puck and create a slimy mush.

 

[Obsidian]

I've made pucks and filled bowls. Personally, I like shallow bowls more. I found jars/cups hard to whip a lather in. For the pucks, I used koh & round pvc mold and sliced after a day or two with no issue.
Always make sure to dump any excess water out of whatever kind of bowl/mug you use to prevent excess mush.

Wish I had a recipe to share but all mine contain beef tallow at a pretty high amount. Not sure thats a ingredient you have access to. I always have to render my own.

I cook/soap with the same crock pot, no issues. I though about trying my instant pot but I was worried it would heat unevenly or too hot. Please let us know how it goes.

 

[DWinMadison]

I've made pucks and filled bowls. Personally, I like shallow bowls more. I found jars/cups hard to whip a lather in. For the pucks, I used koh & round pvc mold and sliced after a day or two with no issue.
Always make sure to dump any excess water out of whatever kind of bowl/mug you use to prevent excess mush.

Wish I had a recipe to share but all mine contain beef tallow at a pretty high amount. Not sure thats a ingredient you have access to. I always have to render my own.

I cook/soap with the same crock pot, no issues. I though about trying my instant pot but I was worried it would heat unevenly or too hot. Please let us know how it goes.

Girl, I got a fridge full of waygu tallow. That would be marketing genius.

 

[Obsidian]

Well, that changes thing lol. I can't say how this compares to commercial products since I have no men to test it for me but I've been using it and a DE razor to shave my legs for a few years now.

Tallow 55%
stearic 20%
coconut 10% (or drop the castor and use 20%, I will do this next batch)
castor 10%
shea or cocoa butter 5% added after cook for SF. I prefer cocoa, would like to try lanolin at some point.

 

[DWinMadison]

Well, that changes thing lol. I can't say how this compares to commercial products since I have no men to test it for me but I've been using it and a DE razor to shave my legs for a few years now.

Tallow 55%
stearic 20%
coconut 10% (or drop the castor and use 20%, I will do this next batch)
castor 10%
shea or cocoa butter 5% added after cook for SF. I prefer cocoa, would like to try lanolin at some point.

Thanks!

 

[IrishLass]

I've made shave soap just about every way you can. lol My first formula was via CP with NaOH, made with a high % of tallow and butters and castor oil, and just a little CO and OO and some kaolin clay. My hubby enjoyed using this formula for about 5 years or so, give or take, and he loved it because it provided him with wonderful cushion, glide and a baby's butt smooth shave, and not once did he ever get a nick or cut with it. It also got high praises from a shaving aficionado over on Badger & Blade to whom I sent samples at his request, and he gave me a few suggestions that helped me tweak it to make it lather more easy, which he said was the only aspect that needed improving in his sage opinion. I've posted the recipe somewhere on the forum before, but don't have a link handy, so here it is:

60% high stearic fats (a combo of beef tallow, kokum butter and illipe butter.....enough to push up my total stearic/palmitic to 35%)
20% castor oil
10% coconut (or a mix of CO and PKO to = 10% bubbly oils total)
10% olive oil or avocado (or a combo to = 10% total)
Superfat of 8%
NaOH (lye concentration of 30%)

Additions:

10% glycerin ppo
2 tsp kaolin clay ppo
2 tbsp. sugar ppo
Coconut cream as part of my water amount (I use 4 tsp. coconut cream powder ppo, mixed with some of my water)

This formula is able to be CP'd quite well if soaped at 120F.


Fast forward to a few years ago when lots of menfolk from the different shaving forums out there started joining our forum here and were interested in making their own shave soap or else duping famous brands that they loved. Out of all the wonderfully informative discussions that ensued, I made several tweaks to my formula over time to make it even better. The first thing I changed was my use of clay. I was encouraged/challenged by them to make my formula without clay, because to most of the wet shavers who joined SMF, clay was anathema. Well, removing the clay from my formula proved to be a disaster.....for the first time since using my shave soap, my hubby had the "crappiest" shave ever and got nicked. At least that showed me the clay was doing something quite nice and useful in my formula as written. If I was going to remove the clay, I would have to tweak something else in my formula to compensate for the loss of that glidy, protective cushion the clay seemed to be contributing.

Long story short, by only tweaking the 60% tallow/kokum/illipe component to allow for the inclusion of 28% straight stearic acid, and switching my lye to an 80% KOH/20% NaOH combo, I was able to achieve a wonderful shave 'croap'/soap without clay that my hubby loved even better than my original, because it was now so much easier to build up the lather.....and best yet- no nicks. The rest of my original recipe remained the same except for the glycerin, which I bumped up to 20%, oh, and I also have to HP it.

The resulting 'croap' is pliable like clay, but able to hold whatever shape you form it into. I pour mine (yes, it actually pours) into a collapsible silicone column mold (from Brambleberry), and the next day when I unmold, it's soft, yet firm enough to cut into pucks. Over time, it does harden up and get more difficult to shape, but it never gets rock hard.

I've also made my tweaked formula with 100% KOH, but hubby prefers the 80 KOH/20 NaOH combo best.


IrishLass

 

[steffamarie]

I didn't have tallow when I made mine, so I chose a vegan recipe (I added lanolin though whoops) off of the big thread. 40% stearic, 18% CO, 15% PKO, 17% shea, and 7% castor. 100% KOH and 15% glycerin, with 4% shea and 1% lanolin as a superfat.

I have lots of leftover pucks if you're interested in trying it out. I'd be happy to send one your way. If I did it again, I'd probably make a tallow recipe as I've made a few tallow soaps since then and am liking the results.

ETA: I didn't use a slow cooker, just a couple of double boilers and stainless steel bowls. Worked a treat.

 

[SeattleMartin]

Is KOH and hot process the gold standard?
IDK about gold standard, but it does seem to the standard. Sort of. Seems that a mix of Sodium and Potassium is most common for the HP recipes.

If so, how would you ever cut gummy KOH soap cut into pucks to package?
Using some NOH allows it to be plenty hard enough to be cut within a day, in my experience.

I have been wet shaving for a few years now and have made a few attempts at a shaving soap. I decided to try a soap without clay first. I have used shaving soaps with and without and personally cannot tell a difference on my face or on my blade. (DE Safety, not brave enough to go full straight razor yet.)
The thread that really helped most was here:
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/my-first-shaving-soap-is-a-success.34264/

A little ways into the first page you can find a link to another forum where this recipe is given
Stearic Acid - 8 1/3 oz.
Aqua - 8 oz.
Coconut Oil - 7 2/3 oz.
Potassium Hydroxide - 3 1/2 oz
Glycerin - 1 tbsp.

I used this as my basis, came up with a recipe that adds almond and jojoba oils and gave it a whirl. The first go I mashed the soap into a puck mold that uses individual cavities. When unmolded the next morning, the pucks were firm enough fit perfectly into a 2 oz tin. (They are still quite soft now, even after near two weeks of curing I can easily dent it by pressing a finger to it with a little force.) I waited a few days to try it out and really liked the result so I worked up a second recipe, tweaked the process a bit, and used the homemade plastic pipe column molds. I was able to easily unmold and cut the soap into pucks within 12 hours. Again, I am very pleased with the results so far. My wife has tried it on her legs and I do believe that I have converted her to shaving soap from the canned cream foam from the supermarket.
As a note on my process, I calculate the recipe at 1 - 2% SF, then add the remaining 4 - 5% SF after cook. It involves a little bit of manual math, but nothing terrible imho.

I am planning to doing a batch that I put straight into jars or tins, but I do like the idea of paper or box packaged pucks. Which brings me to another point: Some shavers actually take a little soap from the puck, tin or jar and put it into the lathering bowl rather than loading the brush from the puck or placing the whole puck in the lathering bowl / scuttle. With this in mind, it seems that jars/tins may end up being my preferred method of standard packaging? Regardless I look forward to hearing about your thoughts and experiences

Hope that at least some of this info helps.

 

[Andrew]

there are many aspects to consider making a shave soap. It is quite a bit more difficult to formulate a great shaving soap than a bar soap. The reason mostly being that the oils that make the great lather have a lot of stearic acid which can be quite drying. Many people use coconut oil in their recipes as well, but it really is an unnecessary ingredient and it also is quite drying and saponifies quickly as wel.

It does not matter if you use hot or cold process. For personal use, the volume you make will be so small that seizing is not an issue. For a company like B&M, then seizing is a great concern. I make my shaving soap cold process and the results are exactly the same.

NaOH makes bar soap. I actually see a lot of formulas with 100% NaOH and they are obviously slightly modified hand soap recipes. KOH makes liquid soap. KOH soap is more water soluble which is why you need it, but if you use too much the soap will turn soupy as it absorbs water over its lifetime. Start with a duel lye solution of about 60/40 KOH/NaOH and maybe tweak it up from their depending on your stearic acid % in the formula. Anything less than a 60/4o ratio and you will have seizing issues and the finished soap will be more difficult to load.

Currently, the most common packaging for shaving soaps in the artisan market is the Parkway Plastics 100m 6 oz jar. 4 oz of soap fits perfectly in it with room to load. There are other manufacturers, but they all are that size.

 

[DWinMadison]

there are many aspects to consider making a shave soap. It is quite a bit more difficult to formulate a great shaving soap than a bar soap. The reason mostly being that the oils that make the great lather have a lot of stearic acid which can be quite drying. Many people use coconut oil in their recipes as well, but it really is an unnecessary ingredient and it also is quite drying and saponifies quickly as wel.

It does not matter if you use hot or cold process. For personal use, the volume you make will be so small that seizing is not an issue. For a company like B&M, then seizing is a great concern. I make my shaving soap cold process and the results are exactly the same.

NaOH makes bar soap. I actually see a lot of formulas with 100% NaOH and they are obviously slightly modified hand soap recipes. KOH makes liquid soap. KOH soap is more water soluble which is why you need it, but if you use too much the soap will turn soupy as it absorbs water over its lifetime. Start with a duel lye solution of about 60/40 KOH/NaOH and maybe tweak it up from their depending on your stearic acid % in the formula. Anything less than a 60/4o ratio and you will have seizing issues and the finished soap will be more difficult to load.

Thanks, bro, Love your website, btw. I generally use soapcalc which does not calculate split batches between NaOH and KOH, Obviously I could calculate separately and combine, but are there calculators that allow for split lye in the same recipe?

 

[Andrew]

use soapee.com and make sure you use 90% KOH in the calculator if that is what you bought.

 

[SeattleMartin]

Thanks, bro, Love your website, btw. I generally use soapcalc which does not calculate split batches between NaOH and KOH, Obviously I could calculate separately and combine, but are there calculators that allow for split lye in the same recipe?

Yup. Aside from the aforementioned there this one
https://www.soapmakingfriend.com/soap-making-recipe-builder-lye-calculator/

 

[Andrew]

if you cold process, 130 is about as low as you can go if you have a substantial stearic acid %.

 

[DWinMadison]

if you cold process, 130 is about as low as you can go if you have a substantial stearic acid %.

Well, now there’s a little piece of info I’ll need. I don’t even think about temp anymore. Since master-batching came into my life, I do everything between ambient temp and 100° f. Duly noted. Thank you again, kind sir.

 

[beckster51]

I think shaving soap using HP is the easiest soap I make. I have never had a failure. I make pucks to put into plastic jars using a vertical round mold. Using full KOH makes the soap pliable, so it is quite easy to press the puck into the jar. Having a jar means that you can dump out the water and close it up to leave at the sink or shower. It also means you can reuse the jar by just washing it between pucks. My husband really likes this method. I don't have the recipe at my fingertips, but I would be happy to share. I originally got it from Badger and Blade, I believe.

 

[SeattleMartin]

Well, now there’s a little piece of info I’ll need. I don’t even think about temp anymore. Since master-batching came into my life, I do everything between ambient temp and 100° f. Duly noted. Thank you again, kind sir.

I actually let my lye come down to between 100F and ambient and it seems fine. My experience with stearic acid says do keep the oils warm. I try to keep them around 170F.
Also, here are the molds I mentioned (forgot to take pics of them when I was doing shaving soap, but they work for any pucks of course)
Used for CP, green clay swirl


Used for an HP bath and body soap


These are technically ABS pipe, but PVC works just as well. If you own, or have access to, a miter saw you can easily cut any lengths you like. A light sanding easily removed any burrs. Currently I am just using uncoated parchment paper as a liner, which works well when double layered. I may try a sheet of acetate instead at some point in order to avoid the wrinkly edges on the HP pucks. I did pad the caps with cardboard as it makes them much easier to remove when they are not pressed on as far.

Of course you can also just put your shaving soap directly into a jar or tin or whatnot