Shave soap hiccup

[Chispa]

I made a shaving soap based loosely on the article found here.

I subbed Avocado oil, since I didn't have Shea butter. I know avo makes a nice hard soap bar, and didn't think much of it.

Recipe:
Oil %
Avocado Oil 10
Coconut Oil, 76 deg 15
Lanolin liquid Wax 5
Stearic Acid 45
Tallow Beef 25
Superfat 3%
100% KOH lye
(in this batch I completely forgot to add the glycerin)

50g batch. Measured out on a 0.01g scale.
http://soapee.com/recipes/7727

I followed Deanna's advice in the shaving soap megathread and split the oils up into three groups. Regular oils, Stearic Acid, and superfat. The plan was to first combine the regular oils (including the Lanolin) with the lye. Let that work for a while, then add the stearic, then the avo. The theory is to allow the lye to work easily on the regular fats, since the lye has to do some work to split them into fatty acids. Once this is done, the SA will snap up the remaining lye.



There was one small issue. You note that my avo is 10% of the fats, but the superfat is only 3%. I figured that I would add all the avo at the end rather than splitting it up, but when I mixed it in, it did not seem like there was any lye left in the soap. The oil did not mix into the soap at all, it rather pooled on top, and even though I tried hard with my mini-whisk it never mixed into the batch.


Eventually I just set it aside to cool. It had no zap. The soap was soft and sticky, with just enough body to hold its own shape, but some would stick to my finger if I poked it.

I've used it shaving. It makes a very creamy lather that does not whip up at all, but is certainly lather, not oil or soap. It is very gentle on my skin. Compared to the Proraso Red shaving soap I was using before it is much less drying.

I'm not sure why the superfatting behaved like it did. It feels like the stearic acid quenched all the lye, and all 10% of the avo stayed oily. The lye was brand new, first time I used it. I remade the recipe, and added half the avo in with the regular oils, half as superfat and it behaved rationally. But I don't know if I would see the same behaviour with unconverted stearic acid.

 

[DeeAnna]

You're making assumptions about the saponification being stopped by the stearic acid that I don't think are valid. Why do you think the stearic would "quench" the KOH when you've provided sufficient KOH to react with the avocado as well as the other fats and fatty acids?

If your recipe is correct (I haven't run the numbers) then there will be sufficient KOH in your soap pot to react with the avocado, regardless of when you add that oil to the soap.

What is more likely the problem is that you're trying to mix a fairly large portion of avocado oil into a very thick, sticky paste. That takes work and time. I've had the same problem adding fragrance and glycerin to my finished shave soap.

 

[Chispa]

Thanks DeeAnna for the breath of common sense. The only way I can imagine the lye being completely used up by the stearic is if the purity was not what it said on the new bottle, which is a low likelihood scenario (Or I mismeasured the lye). It is more likely that it took more time than I imagined for the remaining lye to find and react with the available avocado oil.

Part of the issue was that the consistency of the soap batter was not very thick. I was soaping pretty hot, the soap batter was near 100C in my double boiler. The batter was more of the consistency of applesauce, and I picture the soap you are talking about to be more like play dough. In an apple sauce like environment I would expect the lye to be able to more easily find the avocado oil. Especially since I was mixing vigorously with a mini whisk.

The purpose of my post was to see if anyone else had encountered the same problem, or had insights as to why I was seeing what I did.

Last night I used the second batch shave soap, in which I added half the avo in with the regular oils, half as superfat. I was a bit surprised that it behaved identically both in terms of lather and facefeel, despite being a harder soap. This does confirm that it is likely that the soap just needed a bit of time.

 

[psfred]

It can take a while for saponification to complete, and the soap will change quite a bit over the first week or so after you make it, too.

Did you use the 95% option for the lye when you ran a soap calculator? KOH is normally 95%, not 100% "lye", mainly due to water (and some carbonate). If you used the 100% lye option, you have quite a bit more superfat than you intended......

Unless marked otherwise, assume KOH is 95% pure.

Good thing you didn't make a couple pounds, eh?

 

[Pjclark1]

Fats (and stearic) all in together at the start, add the KOH solution at the end.
I always microwave cook my shaving soap.

Superfat isn't about when you add fats, it's about the proportions of lye to fat in the mixture.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Fats (and stearic) all in together at the start, add the KOH solution at the end.
I always microwave cook my shaving soap.

Superfat isn't about when you add fats, it's about the proportions of lye to fat in the mixture.

Not strictly true. With hp you can add fats after the cook, when the lye is bound to the other oils already. How long it stays that way, however, is something else

 

[shunt2011]

I agree with TEG. I add my superfat at the end after the cook when making my shave soap. More likely to stay the superfat (I hope). CP everything goes in the pot at once.

 

[Chispa]

Thanks for the input guys.

I tried the original recipe today, having obtained some shea butter at an absurdly high cost. Lucky the recipe only uses a little. The only change I made to the recipe was adding citric acid to help with my hard water, then additional KOH to balance out the CA. I made 200g this time, which was a slightly awkward size for any of the containers I have, ended up filling up to an inch from the brim of my mixing container. Closer than I like. Then it started expanding in size, since I was soaping pretty hot. This was my first volcano. Fortunately it was well mixed by this stage and I glopped it into my mould and the crisis was averted. It was pretty liquid up to the point it volcanoed, then it went to vaseline consistency immediately once it stopped volcanoing.

I mixed my superfat with the stearic, adding them after mixing the main oils with the lye, figuring the stearic would grab up most of the lye before the shea would. Who knows how it will go.

I have high hopes for this recipe, we'll see how it goes.

 

[psfred]

It will be very nice shaving soap. My take on shave soap composition is that as long as you have 50-60% stearic plus palmitic acids and around 30% oleic/linoleic acids, the actual oils don't matter very much. High saturated fatty acids give you fine, dense, stable lather that holds water well, and that's what makes slick, wet lather. Superfat can be chosen to give more or less conditioning depending on your skin -- I have fairly oily, rhino hide face skin and don't need much residual conditioning, but if you have dry skin that is easily irritated, lanolin, shea butter, or cocoa butter are quite nice as superfat.

I would also suggest using citric acid and BHT to prevent rancidity -- I made far too much soap doing experiments, then discovered I use very little per shave, and will have to toss some that is going too rancid to shave with. Works OK, but doesn't smell very nice.

 

[Chispa]

I would also suggest using citric acid and BHT to prevent rancidity -- I made far too much soap doing experiments, then discovered I use very little per shave, and will have to toss some that is going too rancid to shave with. Works OK, but doesn't smell very nice.

Good idea to preserve the longevity of your soap. At what rate do you add your BHT? I purchased some a long time ago, but haven't used it yet.

 

[psfred]

0.1% to 0.5%. Use citric acid at the same rate. I also use EDTA at 0.5% to help with my very hard water.

 

[Chispa]

The Silver Fox recipe lathers like a dream. It feels truly amazing. I should not be so proud that I do not use a proven recipe before trying to reinvent the wheel. I've chucked out my previous shave soap attempts, as they are nowhere near the same level.

Has anyone used the BB sensuous sandalwood FO in a soap? I am looking for a scent like Proraso Red shaving soap, which claims it uses real sandalwood oil. I find the smell pleasing, but more importantly my wife really likes it.

I've previously tried a Mysore Sandalwood Fragrance from Escentials of Australia. The package it came in smelled great, the FO itself smelled vaguely like cough syrup, and there was no detectable scent in the finished soap at a 2% usage rate.

 

[psfred]

I prefer the sandalwood FO from Bulk Apothecary to Sensuous Sandalwood from BB. Bulk Apothecary's FO smells much more like actual sandalwood to me, BB's version has some perfumy notes that aren't offensive, but aren't sandalwood either. It also has a reputation for fading badly. My sample lost some strength, but didn't vanish, at least when used in the shower. Bulk Apothecary also has sandalwood EO, but it costs the earth. Not worth the expense for me, certainly.