Sharon Johnson HP method?

[Margo]

Seawolfe: I agree with you. There's a lot of controversy about Sharon Johnson's so-called new method. It's not exactly a secret that if the mixture is hot enough and you stick blend it long enough you'll have soap in a shorter amount of time than the traditional hot-processed cook method.
I mean, if one cave man discovers fire and another cave man who lives thousands of miles away in a different country also discovers fire who invented it? The thing is that ability to make fire was always there...it just needed someone to discover the method of making fire.
I cook my hp soap in a crock pot and when it is ready to pour, it has a ph of 7. I say if it's not broken, don't fix it.

 

[Seawolfe]

Seawolfe: I agree with you. There's a lot of controversy about Sharon Johnson's so-called new method. It's not exactly a secret that if the mixture is hot enough and you stick blend it long enough you'll have soap in a shorter amount of time than the traditional hot-processed cook method.
I mean, if one cave man discovers fire and another cave man who lives thousands of miles away in a different country also discovers fire who invented it? The thing is that ability to make fire was always there...it just needed someone to discover the method of making fire.
I cook my hp soap in a crock pot and when it is ready to pour, it has a ph of 7. I say if it's not broken, don't fix it.

While I agree with almost all of this, I guarantee you that your lye soap isn't pH neutral. If it were it simply wouldn't be soap any more.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

Jbot, that's the issue, the older soapmakers did things without videoing themselves - of course - this kind of malarkey just wasn't on the radar back then.

JBot asks a reasonable question though, and it doesn't require video.

We're not talking about the Stone Age. Forums like Dish, SMF and Craftserver have existed for a long time. Stuff people were doing from even before the mid-aughts is still around, like Miller Soap.

I've been soaping since 2006 or 2007 and I don't recall any HP method that involved SBing the snot out of the soap and adding a dollop of yogurt to make it fluid. And even the advent of stick blending is kinda documented on Miller. Folks haven't been doing it forever.

I am not arguing that SJ's method is original. I could easily believe that it's not something that she was liable to hit upon on her own. At the moment though it's just someone's say-so.

Susie -- Lately, I've been seeing a trend away from the intense focus on pH testing and the idea of forcing the LS pH to go lower than is natural and more focus on the zap test and accepting the soap just as it is. I never thought I'd see the day....

I certainly agree there is a lot of ignorance in connection with that. But neither do I accept the implied orthodoxy. Superfatting with fatty acids is an accepted technique for making a milder soap, and among other things it can modestly lower the pH without invoking the unnatural, or supernatural.

I cook my hp soap in a crock pot and when it is ready to pour, it has a ph of 7. I say if it's not broken, don't fix it.

Nope. It's either not pH 7, or it's not soap.

 

[reinbeau]

JBot asks a reasonable question though, and it doesn't require video.

We're not talking about the Stone Age. Forums like Dish, SMF and Craftserver have existed for a long time. Stuff people were doing from even before the mid-aughts is still around, like Miller Soap.

Trust me, these people have only been at it for a year or less. They don't research (the minions). They form fan clubs around whoever attracts them and only make soap their way. I don't mean that others aren't attracted to these methods, but they've been making soap, they're just looking, experimenting, and then they're off. The negativity mentioned here comes from the fan club who tell others that they're violating some patent (that doesn't exist) because that's what they're told.

I think it's more upsetting that people aren't learning about soapmaking anymore. They're buying recipes, cookbooks, following them religiously, and that becomes THE ONLY WAY.

I've been soaping since 2006 or 2007 and I don't recall any HP method that involved SBing the snot out of the soap and adding a dollop of yogurt to make it fluid. And even the advent of stick blending is kinda documented on Miller. Folks haven't been doing it forever.

I found out way back in the beginning of my hot process career that you could stickblend the snot out of the soap and it would saponify quicker. Mainly because of using full goat's milk, and how it separates constantly. I also knew long before SJ that yogurt converts to a form of sodium lactate when added into the mix. ByrdiJean taught me lots and she didn't make a dime off me.....

I am not arguing that SJ's method is original. I could easily believe that it's not something that she was liable to hit upon on her own. At the moment though it's just someone's say-so.

Lots of someone's saying so. But whatever. She will make her money and people will believe her, but she's really got nothing to stand on but her fans.

Perhaps this thread needs to go away if it's upsetting to people.

 

[topofmurrayhill]

I also knew long before SJ that yogurt converts to a form of sodium lactate when added into the mix.

Perhaps this thread needs to go away if it's upsetting to people.

You sound possibly a bit a upset, but don't worry I think everyone is fine.

Interesting question about the yogurt. Nobody knows why it works.

There's not enough lactic acid in a dollop of yogurt to plausibly have an effect as sodium lactate. Let's generously say there's 1% in yogurt (there's not) and a 50 gram dollop goes into 2000 grams of soap batter, that would make about 5 100ths of a percent SL.

 

[reinbeau]

You sound possibly a bit a upset, but don't worry I think everyone is fine.

No, I'm not upset, it was Susie's post that made me think it was upsetting people.

Interesting question about the yogurt. Nobody knows why it works.

There's not enough lactic acid in a dollop of yogurt to plausibly have an effect as sodium lactate. Let's generously say there's 1% in yogurt (there's not) and a 50 gram dollop goes into 2000 grams of soap batter, that would make about 5 100ths of a percent SL.

Don't know, but it does seem to add nicely to fluidity.

 

[Seawolfe]

Id be interested to see what adding a "dollop" of shea butter, aloe, water, coconut milk, heck even water would do. I know that adding the superfat to HP at this point helps with fluidity.

 

[reinbeau]

Id be interested to see what adding a "dollop" of shea butter, aloe, water, coconut milk, heck even water would do. I know that adding the superfat to HP at this point helps with fluidity.

I don't like adding a lot of excess water, I'm probably at 38-40% total *water*, everything else counts towards raising that level. I consider all fluids when making HP - and the SF is calculated in with everything else. I don't use yogurt specifically or even always. Just about any warmed fluid will help with the fluidity. Keep it all nice and hot and you can make really nice swirls with it.

 

[penelopejane]

I know adding a dollop of sour cream or yoghurt to banana bread (about 10x10x2 deep inches) makes a huge difference.!
Sometimes it is the little things.

There is always someone who offers a service for money and always someone who is prepared to pay. The higher the amount they pay the less likely they are to give negative feedback and the more zealous they will be about the product.

I am a share trader. There is a woman in oz who charges $20,000 to teach you. She makes more money out of "educating" than trading. There are lots of people out there who want the quick fix holy grail.
There really isn't a quick fix holy grail in any endeavour.

 

[JBot]

I don't like adding a lot of excess water, I'm probably at 38-40% total *water*, everything else counts towards raising that level. I consider all fluids when making HP - and the SF is calculated in with everything else. I don't use yogurt specifically or even always. Just about any warmed fluid will help with the fluidity. Keep it all nice and hot and you can make really nice swirls with it.

So does YOURS shrink/warp? I've tried so many different things to try to prevent it. I've noticed that shrink-wrapping the bars when they're fresh kind of does the trick, but that just means they're not drying/curing.

 

[reinbeau]

So does YOURS shrink/warp? I've tried so many different things to try to prevent it. I've noticed that shrink-wrapping the bars when they're fresh kind of does the trick, but that just means they're not drying/curing.

I don't see huge shrinking/warping, I do put the soaps right into the freezer after molding, that supposedly helps align the soap crystals (it is a salt) and helps to prevent that shrinking. I've had pretty good luck with it.

 

[Arimara]

I have left a couple of more FB soapmaking groups over this. I am really done with all the negativity. I just don't have time for all of that anymore, and am simply unwilling to give those folks one more minute of my time. I am still a member of this forum (obviously), and Liquid Soapmakers Yahoo Group, where none of that nonsense is allowed.

There are still yahoo groups? I've been out of the loop for a while.

 

[Margo]

Here is a HP soap that I made 13 years ago. It originally weighed 5.5 oz., but now weighs 4-1/8 oz. It has been stored unwrapped in a soap box.

 

[JBot]

I don't see huge shrinking/warping, I do put the soaps right into the freezer after molding, that supposedly helps align the soap crystals (it is a salt) and helps to prevent that shrinking. I've had pretty good luck with it.

I've heard that before, although I don't understand exactly WHY that would help. Do you think it makes a difference whether it's put in the freezer immediately after pouring into the mold, or cooled on the countertop first? Assuming it's still in the mold and hasn't been sitting around for a long time before being frozen.

 

[reinbeau]

I've heard that before, although I don't understand exactly WHY that would help. Do you think it makes a difference whether it's put in the freezer immediately after pouring into the mold, or cooled on the countertop first? Assuming it's still in the mold and hasn't been sitting around for a long time before being frozen.

I put it right in the freezer after I put it in the mold. I leave it in there overnight, take it out in the morning, let it warm up and then cut.

 

[Margo]

Boys and Girls: There has never been a need for me to put my hp soap into the freezer. I think if you ever have seen freeze dried potatoes you would understand the reason for the warping.
It may be that the warping occurs as a result of leaving the soap in the freezer for too long. Ice crystals form and then when it is exposed to air, the moisture evaporates and causes your soap to warp. (this is just my theory)

 

[Arimara]

Boys and Girls: There has never been a need for me to put my hp soap into the freezer. I think if you ever have seen freeze dried potatoes you would understand the reason for the warping.
It may be that the warping occurs as a result of leaving the soap in the freezer for too long. Ice crystals form and then when it is exposed to air, the moisture evaporates and causes your soap to warp. (this is just my theory)

In my head, it makes sense.

 

[reinbeau]

Boys and Girls: There has never been a need for me to put my hp soap into the freezer. I think if you ever have seen freeze dried potatoes you would understand the reason for the warping.
It may be that the warping occurs as a result of leaving the soap in the freezer for too long. Ice crystals form and then when it is exposed to air, the moisture evaporates and causes your soap to warp. (this is just my theory)

There are denizens on The Dish who explained the science behind it. No one says you *have* to put it in the freezer. It's a suggestion. The slower alignment of the crystals helps to consolidate and firm the soap up. Using the higher moisture method to swirl the soap can lead to the warping, and a stint in the freezer most definitely does help. I'm always puzzled and somewhat amused when this is suggested and people insist there's nothing to it. :::shrug::: I don't care if you try it or not. Works for me.

Oh, and I haven't been a girl for many, many years.

 

[Arimara]

There are denizens on The Dish who explained the science behind it. No one says you *have* to put it in the freezer. It's a suggestion. The slower alignment of the crystals helps to consolidate and firm the soap up. Using the higher moisture method to swirl the soap can lead to the warping, and a stint in the freezer most definitely does help. I'm always puzzled and somewhat amused when this is suggested and people insist there's nothing to it. :::shrug::: I don't care if you try it or not. Works for me.

Oh, and I haven't been a girl for many, many years.

Thanks. Now I'm glad this thread got necroed.

 

[JBot]

Boys and Girls: There has never been a need for me to put my hp soap into the freezer. I think if you ever have seen freeze dried potatoes you would understand the reason for the warping.
It may be that the warping occurs as a result of leaving the soap in the freezer for too long. Ice crystals form and then when it is exposed to air, the moisture evaporates and causes your soap to warp. (this is just my theory)

I've never frozen soap in the mold, so that's not the cause of my warping. I've only frozen soap that's cooled and un-molded but not cut, and I didn't notice any difference.

Maybe we have different definitions of "warping." I'm not talking about soap that's twisted and deformed; I'm talking about well-cured HP bars that have not-perfectly-straight edges/sides. CP edges and sides stay pristinely straight as the bars cure and shrink, but the HP gets a little ripply around the edges.