Shampoo bars

[Dawni]

My hair seems to be the type which can handle anything. Even lye soap. I've tried two different bars so far, and now two different syndets, both had/have no SLS or SLES, only SCI.

My scalp is what's making me try til I get the right one. So far, all of them are giving me itchy scalp, with some flakes, though they're not the kind that falls off into my hair. Not as bad as when I was using liquid ones made with SLS though so I figure I need the gentlest one available in our market.

I can't afford the cost it'll take to experiment so the game plan is to test other people's formulas then use whatever surfactant the winning bar has, for when I can eventually make my own lol

 

[gloopygloop]

These are the ones which look like concentrated noodles glued together with something which looks like its Sodium Cocoamphoacitate. It certainly looks as though it would clarify but would it be harsh?

 

[cmzaha]

cmzaha has told it perfectly, alkaline soap and hair just don't work together, soap will damage hair almost right away and probably worse on the long term. It does not matter what oils it is made of, yes it will lather like no tomorrow and will clean your hair and scalp but at the cost of damaging your hair. I have read so many times over the years that " your hair has to get used to soap first and then it starts to feel nice" well NOT TRUE. In the old days people did use soap before there were surfactant shampoo's but they didn't wash their hair very often which would I guess have saved it a bit. Short mens hair well you could get away with it maybe but it will leave a dull film unless acid rinsed to close the cuticle. As far as M& P is concerned I don't know much about it as I have never used it but many are in fact a mix of surfactant I think, so if that is the case then it would be like a shampoo bar but as I said I don't know about M&P.

Thankyou you said it even better than I. I was going to go into that that hair condition changed considerably once shampoo came into play. Hair is dead once it has grown out of the scalp and you just cannot dead. The hair follicle is quite protected so we always have new hair coming (or at least most of us), which means hair cannot get used to soap.

DeeAnna also clarified well, areas I did not touch on.

 

[Meena]

Thanks, everyone, for sharing what you know about lye soap as shampoo! I'm just dropping the idea because I've spent most of my life protecting my hair from damage. It's usually to my waist or lower, except right now I'm growing out my hendigo color and whacked a foot off to keep the contrast down to a dull roar, but it's still precious to me (and SO).

 

[SoaperForLife]

I am trying to figure out a recipe that allows me to go several days between shampooing. When I wet my hair in the shower I can feel the residue from (I assume) the conditioner bar. It has a tacky feel to it. If I don't shampoo, it dries okay, my scalp doesn't itch and comb through is fine. I'd also like to create a shampoo bar recipe that I don't have to follow with a conditioner. None of this is helped by having to wear a hat of course..

 

[atiz]

My best discovery a few years ago: I have dry hair and dry scalp, and was pretty tired of using shampoo + conditioner all the time. So tried just using conditioner, and it has been working great since. (I wash my hair every second day, usually every day in the summer, with just the conditioner. Spares a lot of time plus a lot of shampoo.... and my hair feels nice and clean.)

 

[gloopygloop]

My best discovery a few years ago: I have dry hair and dry scalp, and was pretty tired of using shampoo + conditioner all the time. So tried just using conditioner, and it has been working great since. (I wash my hair every second day, usually every day in the summer, with just the conditioner. Spares a lot of time plus a lot of shampoo.... and my hair feels nice and clean.)

To me although you are feeling the effect of non dry scalp and hair the science isnt adding up to me as far as cleaning is concerned.
A shampoo is mostly Anionic or Nonionic or Amphoteric with sometimes some Cationinc thrown in for good feel which is saying that some bonds with oil and some with water they work together and attach to the oil which would be holding any unwanted properties and happily rinse away with the water ( very basic unscientific attempt to get point over ) A conditioner is as far as I am aware Cationic and leave behind their positive charge which is what conditions the hair or gives it that slip. So that is why I cant see that conditioner can " clean " hair despite it feeling nice to you, but maybe as you wash regularly there isnt a build up and so requires very little actual cleansing and enough is achieved?
Point taken that many shampoos can be itchy and drying which is why many of us make otherwise its a hunt to find " that" shampoo, but manufactureres tend to put profit first on the most part.

 

[atiz]

To me although you are feeling the effect of non dry scalp and hair the science isnt adding up to me as far as cleaning is concerned.
A shampoo is mostly Anionic or Nonionic or Amphoteric with sometimes some Cationinc thrown in for good feel which is saying that some bonds with oil and some with water they work together and attach to the oil which would be holding any unwanted properties and happily rinse away with the water ( very basic unscientific attempt to get point over ) A conditioner is as far as I am aware Cationic and leave behind their positive charge which is what conditions the hair or gives it that slip. So that is why I cant see that conditioner can " clean " hair despite it feeling nice to you, but maybe as you wash regularly there isnt a build up and so requires very little actual cleansing and enough is achieved?
Point taken that many shampoos can be itchy and drying which is why many of us make otherwise its a hunt to find " that" shampoo, but manufactureres tend to put profit first on the most part.

Well, I don't quite understand why it works either. But it does; I tend to be a pretty clean person and would definitely not run around with dirty-feeling scalp/hair. Yes, I guess the water cleans it just enough (my hair is really fine too, and I have never had oil build-up on my scalp, so probably that's part of it).
Just thought I'd mention it so that if anyone has fine, dry hair, it might be worth a try.

 

[gloopygloop]

Well, I don't quite understand why it works either. But it does; I tend to be a pretty clean person and would definitely not run around with dirty-feeling scalp/hair. Yes, I guess the water cleans it just enough (my hair is really fine too, and I have never had oil build-up on my scalp, so probably that's part of it).
Just thought I'd mention it so that if anyone has fine, dry hair, it might be worth a try.

Some things just dont add up in the petri dish or on paper they just work and if it works it works. Totally see that having fine hair and very regular washing would make a difference too, you seem to have got the balance right and that is the main thing. Its all very well we can have the most squeaky clean hair but want to tear the skin off of our scalps!!!!! not much point in that!!!

 

[DeeAnna]

The use of conditioner as a cleanser adds up for me, so I'll try to explain.

Conditioners contain various emulsifiers, often but not necessarily cationic. Synthetic detergents (which can be cationic, anionic, nonionic, and/or amphoteric) and soap (cationic) are also emulsifiers. The job of an emulsifier is to bond with water and with fats. The net effect is to make fats essentially water soluble so they rinse off the hair or skin more easily. The fats can be included as part of the product or they can be the natural fats produced by your skin and hair follicles.

I imagine conditioners that are high in fat might not do a very good job as a "shampoo" if you want to use it that way, but it's not a universal thing that conditioners have a high % of fat. You can buy or make conditioners that have little or no added fats. Cleansers (syndets and soap) may contain less fat, although that varies too. But all these products emulsify which means at least some of the fat on your hair or skin will rinse off.

 

[gloopygloop]

The use of conditioner as a cleanser adds up for me, so I'll try to explain.

Conditioners contain various emulsifiers, often but not necessarily cationic. Synthetic detergents (which can be cationic, anionic, nonionic, and/or amphoteric) and soap (cationic) are also emulsifiers. The job of an emulsifier is to bond with water and with fats. The net effect is to make fats essentially water soluble so they rinse off the hair or skin more easily. The fats can be included as part of the product or they can be the natural fats produced by your skin and hair follicles.

I imagine conditioners that are high in fat might not do a very good job as a "shampoo" if you want to use it that way, but it's not a universal thing that conditioners have a high % of fat. You can buy or make conditioners that have little or no added fats. Cleansers (syndets and soap) may contain less fat, although that varies too. But all these products emulsify which means at least some of the fat on your hair or skin will rinse off.

This does make sense and one can see how it potentially could offer gentle cleansing if its a basic emulsifier / water type conditioner, I suppose it won't remove last weeks chip fat but yes I see it certainly could remove gentle deposits of oil etc. by emulsifying them for removal. Its an interesting new way to look at conditioners, why and how they work

 

[DeeAnna]

I'd guess a person would have to experiment with different conditioners to see which one works best as a conditioner-as-shampoo. If I wanted a DIY solution and didn't have a commercial product I wanted to dupe, I'd start with a very simple, super basic homemade oil-free conditioner. Probably something like BTMS emulsifier paired with a thickener/stabilizer such as cetyl alcohol, plus water and preservative. If that worked okay, then I'd fancy it up from there.

 

[MGM]

It seems to me that skin and hair are wildly different... Just like body shapes ; I can't wear what some girls wear and my skin and hair don't do what other people's might. One thing tho... "squeaky clean" is definitely not natural. It's a Western construct and while it might help us live in society better (or worse ; I could argue it either way) it's definitely not the way our bodies are meant to be. But it does sell product!