Shampoo Bars - Surfectant percentages

[KiwiMoose]

Can I use SLSA at 22%?
Can I use Decyl Glucoside at 30%?

In the same recipe with SCI @ 40%

Very confusing this syndet bar formulation.

 

[Marilyn Norgart]

what is Decyl Glucoside??

 

[KiwiMoose]

It's a sugar derived surfectant.

 

[justjacqui]

I wouldn't use that much decyl glucoside because the pH of this surfactant is quite high and you don't really want to have to try and adjust the pH. I would also suggest limiting the liquid surfactants to a maximum of around 25% so that your bar is not too soft.

I would advise using at least 10 to 15% of cocamidopropyl betaine as part of the liquid surfactant amount to help melt the SCI.

Hope this helps

 

[KiwiMoose]

I wouldn't use that much decyl glucoside because the pH of this surfactant is quite high and you don't really want to have to try and adjust the pH. I would also suggest limiting the liquid surfactants to a maximum of around 25% so that your bar is not too soft.

I would advise using at least 10 to 15% of cocamidopropyl betaine as part of the liquid surfactant amount to help melt the SCI.

Hope this helps

Thanks Jacqui - it was the pH I was worried about - but of course I didn't even think of the fact that it is liquid! I am making a cocamidopropyl betaine free bar though.

I am also concerned that most recipes I've found only use about 30% SCI so wondering if my 40% is ok? The SLSA is quite high at 20% too by the looks of other recipes. And do I have to melt the SCI granules? Can I not leave them whole? I see someone in their recipe says I need to grind them first.

 

[justjacqui]

You could possibly use another amphoteric surfactant such as sodium lauroamphoacetate instead of the cocamidopropyl betaine. Amphoteric surfactants help to improve mildness so they are always a great addition.

I use the SCI in powder form as I think it gives a more consistent appearance and melt/blend it with the cocamidopropyl betaine as a first step. I haven't tried with the granules so can't advise too much there but I think you would probably get better performance with a powder form melted/blended into a homogeneous mix.

I have seen a few formulas that have 40% SCI and I remember reading somewhere that people used SCI as the only solid surfactant so I don't think this would be an issue.

 

[KiwiMoose]

You could possibly use another amphoteric surfactant such as sodium lauroamphoacetate instead of the cocamidopropyl betaine. Amphoteric surfactants help to improve mildness so they are always a great addition.

I use the SCI in powder form as I think it gives a more consistent appearance and melt/blend it with the cocamidopropyl betaine as a first step. I haven't tried with the granules so can't advise too much there but I think you would probably get better performance with a powder form melted/blended into a homogeneous mix.

I have seen a few formulas that have 40% SCI and I remember reading somewhere that people used SCI as the only solid surfactant so I don't think this would be an issue.

Thanks for your response Jacqui - I've actually just made them and now they're in the mold, so I will give an in depth report on performance in a few days. Not too sure of the smell - Litsea, Rosemary and Patchouli - smells a bit weird. Ah well - can always give them as Xmas pressies to get rid, lol!

 

[Dawni]

I've actually just made them and now they're in the mold, so I will give an in depth report on performance in a few days.

Excited!

 

[KiwiMoose]

You could possibly use another amphoteric surfactant such as sodium lauroamphoacetate instead of the cocamidopropyl betaine. Amphoteric surfactants help to improve mildness so they are always a great addition.
Ive done a search for
SODIUM LAUROAMPHOACETATE and I can't find a supplier in NZ

 

[justjacqui]

I only know of TRULUX in Australia that sells sodium lauroamphoacetate. They do ship internationally but I have no idea of what the shipping fees would be to NZ.

You could also look for other amphoterics such as cocamidopropyl hydroxysultaine, sodium cocoamphoacetate or disodium cocoamphodiacetate.

 

[KiwiMoose]

I only know of TRULUX in Australia that sells sodium lauroamphoacetate. They do ship internationally but I have no idea of what the shipping fees would be to NZ.

You could also look for other amphoterics such as cocamidopropyl hydroxysultaine, sodium cocoamphoacetate or disodium cocoamphodiacetate.

Thanks Jacqui - I will look them up : )
I think my shampoo bars might need a bit more lather.

 

[justjacqui]

Decyl glucoside isn't great for lather but give them a few days to"cure" before you decide to change the formulation.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Can't get any of those either @justjacqui : (
However I wouldn't use the first one for the same reasons I don't use the betaine.

 

[Dawni]

Can you get Babassuamidopropyl betaine?

There's also Coco betaine but that's got a higher ph than CAPB so you'll have to adjust the ph..