Shampoo Bar - Thanks Lindy!!

[rainycityjen]

Appreciate you talking to the chemistry. Although my soap may be too basic to not require a rinse, the original posters suggested it may be possible for some people to not always use a rinse. Hair type and water dependent. Maybe they were fooling themselves and would have eventually require a rinse.

My understanding of sodium citrate was that it reduced soap scum residue, which is similar to the residue you feel on your hair as a result of using soap. I did not believe that citric acid as an acid would reduce the pH.

I did account for the extra lye required if you see my original recipe. Still, it's a good note for anyone else using citric acid.

 

[Lbrown123]

I have been using one of my test shampoo bars for a month. I love the softer feel of my hair without the chemical coatings. I have been using Desert Essence conditioner. I switched to a phthalate free conditioner. I keep my hair mid length and cut off about 2 to 3 inches every 6 weeks. I also am dye free now. My whole family is trying out the testers and no complaints yet. I still want to try some infusions and additives before I say it is the best I can make but I have made the switch and am happy with my hair.

 

[Saipan]

Well, since the thread is revived, and I didn't do it, I'm going to ask a question.

Genny the first poster, said she infuses Chamomile in all her soaps except ones with Shea... Why Chamomile, and why not with Shea? If anyone knows.

 

[galaxyMLP]

The reason is likely due to practicality. Shea butter is solid at room temp so doing an infusion in Shea would require you to heat the butter and hold it with the chamomile buds, then without letting it cool back down too much, strain it. That's a bit too much work and it's just easier to do it in liquid oils. At least, that's my thought on it.

 

[biarine]

I am using shampoo bar for nearly 2 years now and I love them. It helps to fix my damaged hair from bleaching. I won't going back to commercial shampoo again.

 

[JayJay]

I am using shampoo bar for nearly 2 years now and I love them. It helps to fix my damaged hair from bleaching. I won't going back to commercial shampoo again.

I am so glad that you posted this. Would you mind sharing more details? Do you use a vinegar rinse? Do you have hard water or soft water? How long is your hair? Is your hair course, fine, or normal? Do you follow with a conditioner? How often do you shampoo?

My shampoo bars just finished curing and I am building up the courage to try it on my hair.

 

[biarine]

I am so glad that you posted this. Would you mind sharing more details? Do you use a vinegar rinse? Do you have hard water or soft water? How long is your hair? Is your hair course, fine, or normal? Do you follow with a conditioner? How often do you shampoo?



My shampoo bars just finished curing and I am building up the courage to try it on my hair.

I used used apple cider vinegar 1 teaspoon of vinegar to 1 cup of water then I add 3 drops of essential ( rosemary is my favourite) then I rinse like conditioner. We don't have hard water luckily and I don't use conditioner instead after I blow dry my hair I spray it with rose water then I put some virgin hemp oil mostly into the end of my hair and as well as in my scalp ( not too much). You can use any oil that you like for me I like hemp because isn't greasy but the downfall is the scent hemp has a distinct scent. Hope it helps

 

[reflection]

The best way I can explain what the high PH soap and low PH ACV rise does to soap is this. Take a thin piece of metal and bend it up. Then bend it down. Then bend it up. This is basically what you're doing to the hair cuticle (the part that protects the shaft) every time you put it through the rapid PH cycle of soap/ACV. You can only bend that piece of metal so many times before it breaks off. How many times depends on the type of metal. But eventually, it WILL break. Same exact thing with a hair cuticle. I personally would feel horrible selling (or even giving away) a product that I KNOW could cause that kind of damage to someone's hair.

since there are a couple other threads about shampoo bars currently i am reviving this thread to ask a question about this as i've been wanting to try one but don't want to damage my hair. forgive me if it is answered somewhere in the 77 pages. i can't bring myself to read the entire thread but i did read a number of pages.

anyway, i looked up the pH of both skin and hair and for skin it is 5.5 and for hair, scalp oil & sebum it is 4.5-5.5. i know that homemade soaps are alkaline but the argument i have heard for using them on the face is to use a toner that is acidic after using a homemade soap and it brings the pH back down quite quickly (in an hour or so) so damage isn't done to facial skin. this argument is usually in response to those who claim "soap", aka detergent bars bought at the grocery store, is too alkaline for face and the whole acid mantle thing. so…my question is if this is true for homemade soap and facial skin then why would it be different for hair? why wouldn't the ACV rinse just bring the hair pH back down after using a shampoo bar just like a toner on one's face supposedly does. or, is that an incorrect theory?

thanks.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Please do read the thread - rinses of various types are discussed, as well as using vinegar as lye water to make the soap (sodium acetate) and so on. It will take some reading, but it is worth it to see all of the information provided.

 

[cmzaha]

since there are a couple other threads about shampoo bars currently i am reviving this thread to ask a question about this as i've been wanting to try one but don't want to damage my hair. forgive me if it is answered somewhere in the 77 pages. i can't bring myself to read the entire thread but i did read a number of pages.

anyway, i looked up the pH of both skin and hair and for skin it is 5.5 and for hair, scalp oil & sebum it is 4.5-5.5. i know that homemade soaps are alkaline but the argument i have heard for using them on the face is to use a toner that is acidic after using a homemade soap and it brings the pH back down quite quickly (in an hour or so) so damage isn't done to facial skin. this argument is usually in response to those who claim "soap", aka detergent bars bought at the grocery store, is too alkaline for face and the whole acid mantle thing. so…my question is if this is true for homemade soap and facial skin then why would it be different for hair? why wouldn't the ACV rinse just bring the hair pH back down after using a shampoo bar just like a toner on one's face supposedly does. or, is that an incorrect theory?

thanks.

Don't do it, most hair will be affected negatively within a year of using bar soap on hair. Using it once in a while if you have run out of shampoo is okay but NOT full time use. Make yourself a nice "shampoo" bar if you really do not want to buy shampoo, but I will warn you, it costs much more to make shampoo versus purchasing a nice shampoo. Vinegar rinses, lemon juice rinses will help but not fix damage. If you still do not believe it, go for it. Eventually you will most likely believe it is not good for your hair. Handmade soap is wonderful but not necessarily for everyone or everywhere

 

[milky]

why wouldn't the ACV rinse just bring the hair pH back down after using a shampoo bar just like a toner on one's face supposedly does. or, is that an incorrect theory?

I'm in no way an expert, but my guess is that since skin is still alive and hair is not, it's best not to consider them in the same category. For one, their structure is visibly different. Close-up, hair looks kind of scaly. I think when hair is very damaged then those scales stick up and don't lay back down like they used to. Flaky skin can be exfoliated and moisturized into submission. It's hard to do that with hair, especially with homemade products. Might work for your hair type, but... I'm prone to split ends and don't want to risk it.

 

[mommycarlson]

I have a pixie haircut, my hair is now gray but I have been using bar soap that I make on my hair for several months now, before that I used Shea Moisture bar soap and before that I used a shampoo bar that I purchased on Amazon. I have had no ill effects from using the bar soap (I make a specific one that is a shampoo bar) and I do not use a conditioner. My hair dresser is impressed with the health and appearance of my hair and has no problem with me using my own bar soap. It may be different for people with long hair. I love the shampoo bar, my husband uses it and his sister also requests it.

 

[shunt2011]

As we have stated, use it at your own discretion. There is no way to formulate a soap for hair. It's still a high PH product and most hair does not like it. You can make it low cleansing certainly. Those that can use it good for them (my husband). Not me nor any of the girls in my family.

 

[DeeAnna]

Even without an acidic toner, skin is able to regain its natural pH fairly quickly after any kind of washing -- even washing with water will change the pH. Hair can't do that, since it's not living. An acid rinse can repair some of the damage, but not all, so the damage slowly accumulates.

The damage to my husband's short hair and my shoulder length hair did not really show up until at least a year after we started using lye-based soap to wash our hair. His hair became frizzy and dry looking -- the soft wave and natural shine were gone. Mine ... well, the less said about that mess, the better. I was all for this idea at first, but never again.

What works for a person is what works. There are no "shampoo police" to haul a person off to jail for using lye soap on your hair, so do what you think is best. It's just that a large percentage of the people who have tried this on their short/long, straight/wavy/curly, thick/thin, fine/coarse hair have found lye soap has done evil things to their hair in the long run. We're trying to explain this, so newcomers to this idea can have the benefit of others' experience.

 

[reflection]

thanks everyone for the feedback. i will definitely proceed with caution if i do try a shampoo bar. i hadn't heard before they could be so damaging and was planning on trying them so am a bit bummed but do appreciate the heads up.

I'm in no way an expert, but my guess is that since skin is still alive and hair is not, it's best not to consider them in the same category. For one, their structure is visibly different. Close-up, hair looks kind of scaly. I think when hair is very damaged then those scales stick up and don't lay back down like they used to. Flaky skin can be exfoliated and moisturized into submission. It's hard to do that with hair, especially with homemade products. Might work for your hair type, but... I'm prone to split ends and don't want to risk it.

milky, this is what i figured. the interesting thing is the argument for using handmade soap on skin, especially facial skin, versus a pH balanced detergent product is more complicated i remembered. it is about the glycerin being removed from detergent "soaps" whereas it is retained in handmade soaps. i am hoping maybe it is similar with shampoo bars and the issue isn't really about pH, or possibly just pH, but possibly other factors like using CO or other highly cleansing oils. of course that could be wishful thinking on my part. if i do try one i'm definitely steering clear of CO & will keep using an ACV rinse which is doing wonders for my hair.

 

[DeeAnna]

No, it's not about using coconut oil or not -- the shampoo bars I made had no coconut oil (and zero of the other "cleansing" oils) in the recipe. It simply the fact of using a lye-based soap that is naturally alkaline on my hair rather than using a synthetic detergent cleanser that is naturally neutral to acidic.

 

[joy.]

Just out of curiosity, what did people wash their hair with before synthetic detergents were invented?

 

[lenarenee]

Lye soap I assume. But in the old days people washed once a week, not daily.

 

[joy.]

Lye soap I assume. But in the old days people washed once a week, not daily.

I was hoping someone would have an amazing long lost recipe from a great-great-grandma stashed away, for an herbal rinse or something. ; )

 

[WeaversPort]

I am brand new to soapmaking, but have some experience herbal and acid rinses.

I noticed several people had a hard time, getting oily results when starting out. If you have hard water it seems to be a common struggle. Several people have recommended the FAQ on how to deal with hard water from J.R. Liggett: https://jrliggett.com/faq#best-results.

In regards to herbal rinses and acid rinses, different people have different results. I don't use acid rinses often, maybe once a week or so. I will leave them on for a minute or so after gently combing through with a wide tooth combination. For an acid you can use:

• 1.5 tsp lemon juice in 8 oz. warm water
• 1 tsp apple cider vinegar in 8 oz. warm water
• 1 tsp citric acid in 8 oz warm water

For the herbal acid rinses, there are a few ways to go about it. Infusing vinegar is certainly the most "straight up". Add the herbs of choice to the vinegar (some people use kombucha vinegar, wine vinegar, most common is apple cider vinegar), warm it in a double boiler until it warm but not hot. You don't want to boil it. Then pour the herb and vinegar mixture into a clean, glass jar and let it steep for 4-6 weeks, shaking it regularly. Then you can strain out the herbs through a cheesecloth or fine mesh, and simply use the vinegar as above.

If you are using the lemon juice or citric acid, it takes a little more effort ongoing, but less time up front. If you are infusing water, you basically make an overnight tea. Bring the water up to heat, add the herbs, put in a clean jar, close and let steep for 24 hours. You can then store the tea in the fridge to preserve it for a week or two. You can dilute the tea with warm water and the acid to keep it from being an intensely refreshing rinse - 2 oz tea, to 6 oz water - and acid of your choice depending on your preferences.

I tend to leave a weeks worth in a condiment bottle in the fridge, and the rest of the herb mix can stays in the fridge.

As far as what kind of herbs to use? It really depends on what you are looking for. If you want to use essential oils, add those after everything is done infusing and you're making your mix for the week. Then 5-7 drops in the bottle, and make sure you shake well before rinsing, to distribute the oils through the water.

Some good herbs for the "normal" range of hair and skin are:

• Lavender
• Camomile
• Nettle
• Horsetail
• Mint
• Sage
• Rosemary
• Green tea
• Fenugreek
• Borage
• Burdock

If you are using essential oils, don't use Rosemary essential oil if you are pregnant or have epilepsy.

Essential oils can be the same as the herbs above of course, additional ones might be carrot seed, Clary Sage, Patchouli, Geranium, Cedarwood, Peppermint, Lemongrass, Neroli.

For oily skin/hair: Rosemary, Lemongrass, Tea Tree, Sage, Eucalyptus, Neem, Clove, Bay, Oregano, Mint, and Basil.

Just be careful of Peppermint - too much and you will feel very minty fresh.

I generally use a mix of Lavender, Sage, Chamomile, Clove, Fenugreek, Rosemary, Nettle, and Mint herbs. I then use essential oils of Clary Sage and Cedarwood.

For blondes, I don't recommend herbal infusing Rosemary, Sage, Borage or Clove. Instead use Calendula, Chamomile, Lemon, and/or Sunflower petals.

Brunettes consider Black Tea, Black Walnut hulls (crushed or chopped), Comfrey root, Nettle, Rosemary, Sage.

Red heads consider Calendula, Henna, Hibiscus flowers, Red Clover flowers, Rose hips, and Red Rose petals.

You can use these herb combinations minus the acids, just as a nice treat for hair and scalp - especially the horsetail and fenugreek. I hope this helps give some inspiration and food for thought, whether you use shampoo bars or not!


Kaye