Shampoo bar questions?

[SoulShine]

Can anyone direct me with a link or a book to more information making the shampoo bars that look hot processed and usually made into a disc?
I make an all plant oils and lye based "shampoo bar" in the shape of just a regular bar of soap. I know the ingredients coming through the cp don`t really retain those benefits.
I`ve read some on the syndet bars,but that is using detergents...am I correct? I wonder what the benefits of that is.
I just can`t find much info...or any answers as to why they look hot processed.
I hope this makes sense. Thanks for any feedback.
Sharon

 

[KiwiMoose]

Have a look at my old thread here:
Syndet Shampoo Bar Trials
Essentially the thought is that lye-based soap used as shampoo had to high a pH for hair (which is about 3.5) so syndet bars are used as they can achieve a lower pH than soap.

 

[justjacqui]

Syndet is short for "synthetic detergent". Many of the synthetic detergents (surfactants) that you can use are derived from plant sources so not entirely synthetic.

As KiwiMoose mentioned the advantage of surfactants is being able to adjust the bars to a hair friendly pH. This cannot be done with soaps.

I would recommend checking out Swiftcraftymonkey's books and blog (Blog – Point of Interest) (Basic Shampoo Bar Formula) or Humblebee and Me (How to Make Shampoo - Humblebee & Me) as a good starting point for basic shampoo bar formulations.

Here is a hot pour formula from Colonial Chemicals (Hot Pour Moisturizing Shampoo Bar)

Hope this helps.

 

[AliOop]

I bought a syndet shampoo bar recipe from DIY Bath & Body on Etsy. I also got their conditioner bar recipe. Their listing discloses the ingredients you will need before you purchase the recipe, and after you purchase it, the instructions are fairly straightforward to follow. They also tell you what substitutions and changes you might consider making for different hair types: dry, oily, etc. I pretty much followed their recipe with a few tweaks, and it turned out great. I've sent tester bars to a few folks who love them, as well.

I also have a $1 subscription to SwiftyCraftyMonkey, and I have looked at her recipes and explanations, too. Unfortunately, for me, the blog format is too scattered for me to follow along. I end up with tons of pages open, and no clear direction on how to make a recipe with the ingredients that I want. But if you are able to work through that, there is a TON of information available even at the $1 subscription level. You can quit any time you want, too, so it is not a big commitment.

 

[SoulShine]

thank you for your responses. I`ve made my own "shampoo bar" for years..cp. My husband swears by it...it dries my hair. I will research all the info provided..but for the sake of instant gratification...lol...Aree the snydet bars hp? Is that how they get that rough look?

 

[Kcryss]

The syndet bars do not use lye so they are technically neither hp or cp. To make them into bars most of the ingredients are dry, so the mixture has to be hand pressed into molds.

Here is a hot pour formula from Colonial Chemicals (Hot Pour Moisturizing Shampoo Bar)

Wow, that's interesting. I hadn't come across this one yet. Thanks for sharing!

 

[Misschief]

thank you for your responses. I`ve made my own "shampoo bar" for years..cp. My husband swears by it...it dries my hair. I will research all the info provided..but for the sake of instant gratification...lol...Aree the snydet bars hp? Is that how they get that rough look?

Most of the ingredients are dry but they are melted together. The reason some of them look a little "rougher" is that one of the ingredients, SCI (Sodium Cocoyl Isethionate), comes in noodle form and often the noodles aren't completely melted. You could also use a powder, which would give the bars a much smoother look.

I've been using the syndet recipe AlieOop mentioned for over two years and my hair has never looked or felt better.

 

[SoulShine]

The syndet bars do not use lye so they are technically neither hp or cp. To make them into bars most of the ingredients are dry, so the mixture has to be hand pressed into molds.

well that explains a lot! Thank you.

 

[GemstonePony]

I use SCI noodles but melt them down for my bars. It takes more time, but it's do-able, and I don't have to deal with SCI powder.

 

[Quanta]

well that explains a lot! Thank you.

I'd like to mention that although a lot of people leave their SCI noodles intact or only partially melted, it's important that you make sure they are completely melted. Otherwise the SCI won't be incorporated properly in the mixture and your pH may be off. Also the bar may not dissolve/be used up uniformly enough.

People leave the SCI like that because they like the way it looks, but wouldn't you rather have a bar that works great? I would. I use the powder for mine because it dissolves into the cocamidopropyl betaine faster than the noodles. Although I did recently order some noodles just to compare.

 

[Misschief]

I'd like to mention that although a lot of people leave their SCI noodles intact or only partially melted, it's important that you make sure they are completely melted. Otherwise the SCI won't be incorporated properly in the mixture and your pH may be off. Also the bar may not dissolve/be used up uniformly enough.

People leave the SCI like that because they like the way it looks, but wouldn't you rather have a bar that works great? I would. I use the powder for mine because it dissolves into the cocamidopropyl betaine faster than the noodles. Although I did recently order some noodles just to compare.

I beg to differ. When you're using the bar, even if the SCI noodles are not fully melted, you still get the benefit of the other ingredients as you're not just wetting the SCI noodles. I've noticed no difference at all in performance between bars with SCI powder or SCI noodles (not fully melted). Both work equally well. It's more important to make sure that your mix is melted enough to form it into a bar rather than to fully melt the SCI noodles. If it isn't melted enough, it will fall apart much more quickly.

 

[Quanta]

I beg to differ. When you're using the bar, even if the SCI noodles are not fully melted, you still get the benefit of the other ingredients as you're not just wetting the SCI noodles. I've noticed no difference at all in performance between bars with SCI powder or SCI noodles (not fully melted). Both work equally well.

I'm going by the information from swiftcraftymonkey. She gives a better explanation than I did, but the way she explains it makes a lot of sense. She has made a lot more shampoo than I have, and she understands the science of it better than most of us. I'll stick to her advice.

 

[SoulShine]

well thanks for the explanations, after reading the techniques and ingredients I guess I won`t be making shampoo bars. It seems some questionable chemicals are needed. Maybe I`ll just try to HP and squish it into a puck shape.

 

[Quanta]

well thanks for the explanations, after reading the techniques and ingredients I guess I won`t be making shampoo bars. It seems some questionable chemicals are needed. Maybe I`ll just try to HP and squish it into a puck shape.

What ingredients are you referring to as "questionable chemicals"?

Any kind of soap on hair is much much harsher than a properly formulated syndet bar. You can usually substitute ingredients you don't like in a syndet bar, whereas you can never re-formulate a soap to make it not be harsh on hair.

Due to the pH, the type of damage soap does to hair is similar to getting a perm or using permanent dye, except it's much more frequent. In contrast, a syndet bar is extremely gentle, and can be formulated to be so gentle that it removes very little of the natural oils from your hair and scalp, if that is what you need.

If you tell us what shampoo bar ingredients you don't like, maybe someone here will have a suggestion for you to try.

 

[SoulShine]

What ingredients are you referring to as "questionable chemicals"?

Any kind of soap on hair is much much harsher than a properly formulated syndet bar. You can usually substitute ingredients you don't like in a syndet bar, whereas you can never re-formulate a soap to make it not be harsh on hair.

Due to the pH, the type of damage soap does to hair is similar to getting a perm or using permanent dye, except it's much more frequent. In contrast, a syndet bar is extremely gentle, and can be formulated to be so gentle that it removes very little of the natural oils from your hair and scalp, if that is what you need.

If you tell us what shampoo bar ingredients you don't like, maybe someone here will have a suggestion for you to try.

I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.

 

[msunnerstood]

I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.

You can use other surfactants that are derived from natural things like coconuts

 

[Misschief]

From the New Directions description of SCI - This is one of the gentlest surfactants on the market and works well even in hard water. Made from renewable coconut fatty acids and fully biodegradable, it is gentle enough to use in products for babies and personal cleansers such as eye-makeup removers. Having little scent, it will not tend to trigger fragrance allergies

 

[Quanta]

I am trying to stick to "all natural" . The SCI noodles or powder are apparently what gives the shampoo bars that seem to be so popular now the "look" I was trying to achieve.

Just to clarify, you don't want to use SCI because you believe it isn't natural? It's just a surfactant that is derived from coconuts, the same way that any soap is a chemical that is derived from whatever oil you want to make it out of. You take part of a plant and react it with chemical substances, and you get things like SCI, or soap, or whatever, depending on the chemical you use on the plant matter and what part of the plant you use. Some of the new chemical substances you create that way have a high pH unsuitable for hair (like soap) and some of them have a low ph that works great for hair, like SCI.

And I want to make sure you know, just for safety's sake, that just because a chemical is natural, doesn't mean it's smart or safe to use it in a particular way. Take poison ivy for instance. Would you use poison ivy in a lotion?

Conversely, just because a chemical is the result of a chemical reaction between a plant part and a chemical, doesn't mean it's dangerous. SCI has a fantastic track record for being safe to use and far, far gentler on hair than soap can ever be.

You can use other surfactants that are derived from natural things like coconuts

SCI is the first thing that I think of when someone says "surfactant derived from coconuts".

 

[SoulShine]

I more closely looked into SCI, how and where it`s made. Thanks all for the heads up on a product I`d never heard of.

 

[chrissyshuen]

Is there much difference using the press bars (SCI noodles) rather then the cold process? I have made the cold process shampoo bars and people seem to like them.