SFIC is discontinuing all soap bases with soy & using oat protein instead?

[Susie]

I was going to be "snippy" to let you know what snippy actually is. However, I am going to take the high road here and just tell you what I know.

This is about the 20th(maybe more) person with celiac plus more than one auto-immune condition that I have encountered that has a problem with gluten anywhere in their environment. Even a flour and glue ornament(made by a grandchild) that had been painted with a couple of coats of paint and dipped in polyurethane to try to seal it. I am not sure exactly what the mechanism is, but this patient did not even know what that ornament was made of. She had a huge flare up of everything(MS, celiac, lupus...and I forget the rest) starting a couple of weeks before Christmas. Took us days to figure out what the trigger was. We ended up taking a picture of the ornament and hanging that on the tree. End of flare up.

I KNOW it does not make sense according to most literature. However, it is what it is. And you science people need to talk to more patients. Maybe some will understand what you really need to be researching and studying.

 

[sassanellat]

Thanks for being cordial - and I don't write if I'm not sure what I'm writing about is 100% correct. I think we misinterpret each other's tone. And I am a science person that is most definitely immersed in the situation you mention, at one of the top medicals centers in the world. I do medial research, primarily on samples of voluntary patients, and I train doctors and nurses there (and elsewhere, mostly undergrad nursing students from disadvantaged areas), so I am very familiar with the day to day chatter about cases. I do all of the same training as the staff does since we are in the same building. I also have six people in my personal life that currently deal with one form or another of gluten disease that rely on me for advice. This is a complex issue as you pointed out, so it's hard to explain briefly, so I'm afraid my brevity had an unintended result (as obsidian suggested). I've already sent a direct PM.

Here's the latest scoop on gluten: there are two different diseases with completely different pathways going on! One (Celiacs) is an autoimmune disease, where the gluten must be eaten and only happens when gluten binds to the microvilli in the gut. It's very serious and has long term implications. The other is a gluten allergy (totally different pathway, meds, treatment, etc.) and you can get the reactions from contact with your (external) skin as well as by eating it. You can have none, either, or (rarely) both. The treatment for Celiacs can mask the proper culprit sometimes, and that's part of the reason why people have such an awful time correctly diagnosing the issue at hand and treating it well (plus, avoiding gluten is really hard). I posted only because Celiacs was mentioned, but the symptoms of the allergy were being described. Your example is also that type - an allergic/histamine reaction which will cause MS, lupus, etc. to flare (and is usually treated with benadryl and/or prednisone). I was hoping that a gentle prod to make a phone call might prompt her MD to think of this, so her treatment could be reassessed in light of the topical sensitivity because that shouldn't happen in textbook Celiacs and probably isn't part of the treatment regimen. We're seeing more people having both reactions here, too, which is bad. I hope that helps.

(And just an FYI - a fairly large chunk of the government funded research budget is administered by the NIH, which is a combination of PhDs and MDs at the top of their fields. They decide what we research, so there is a lot of direct input from what's going on now on the floor. Being practical like yourself, I wish I had more control over those choices.)

Yes, I know... back to soaping. But this is a bit relevant: if you use a starch for a scent fixative (like I do if I don't want to use clay), I always pick cornstarch or arrowroot because it's gluten-free for this very reason.

 

[Susie]

One last thing, since I think the OP will read this and it may help her and others. If every doctor were as up-to-date as we would all wish on every disease/condition that they treat, it would be a much better world. However, we in the medical field know that just is not so. However, the OP could(and SHOULD) do her homework on the computer and print out the info from the NIH and other reliable medical research facilities and bring it to her doctor on her next visit(could you suggest any?). Sometimes we have to educate our doctors, and that is a shame. And yes, the incidence of having both Celiac's and the allergic reaction has grown astronomically in my (limited) experience. It is so common now that I made the leap from Celiac's/MS right to the allergic reaction just from what she said about soap sending her to bed.

Thank you for writing the long version of what you were trying to say. That was extremely helpful and educational(for me as well as the OP). Maybe we medical folks need to undo that training that we only use the minimum amount of words needed.

 

[lionprincess00]

I read on several celiac message boards. The main reason they are hypervigilant about avoiding lotions, soaps etc with gluten is because one bubble in the mouth when washing face, one drop of lotion in a shaving nick introduces the gluten and is a potential for a reaction. They do not want to endure a reaction so they avoid triggers externally as well as internally. It seems unnecessarily excessive, at first glance.
But...

My RA (rheumatoid arthritis better called rheumatoid disease) has left me more understanding today of others than I ever was before regarding their medical problems. If I had a celiac problem, I'd avoid it too I bet.

If it makes you worried and uncomfortable...then we need to find a better soap base!

So I will attempt to find a base you can use comfortably. I checked bramble berrys GM MP base, and aloe base, both have oat protein. I'll keep looking. The link obsidian posted is gluten free.

Honestly, cp is easier than mp in my opinion. But that's just me lol.

And I looked before posting. Voila!

http://www.naturesgardencandles.com.../nat-goat/-goats-milk-melt-and-pour-soap.html

Nature's garden claims ALL their bases are gluten free. So if you don't was goat milk, you can get a different base there and be certain there isn't gluten.

 

[Stacy]

i'll have to get my stick blender out and see if i can handle it for fifteen minutes

This might seem like strange minutia, but if you have a problem with muscle weakness, you'll want to pay attention to the switch. There are ones you need to hold on and ones that toggle on and off. Perhaps if yours isn't the toggle, you can find one that is.

I only know this because my Mother has a lot of issues with weakness in her hands and I remember when I bought a new SB without the toggle, thinking how she wouldn't be able to use it very long.

Best of luck in your search, I hope making your own works for you. There's nothing like the peace of mind independence can bring with something this important.

 

[new12soap]

WSP seems to have several detergent free MP bases without any gluten. Some of these DO contain oatmeal, but they all have the ingredients clearly spelled out. There is a $40 minimum to order from them, but shipping is included. You may want to try a couple of different ones, and a few nice scents...

http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/soap-making-supplies/melt-pour-soap-base/detergent-free.aspx

http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/detergent-free-goat-milk-soap-2-lb-tray.aspx

http://www.wholesalesuppliesplus.com/products/detergent-free-honey-soap-2-lb-tray.aspx

I hope you find something that works for you. I agree, soaping should be fun and relaxing, not stressful or scary, and if this is what works best for you then get to it!

 

[urchin]

thank you all for your suggestions. i didn't want it to be about me proving that i have celiac disease ... that it exists ... and don't want to use gluten products, but .... at any rate.

special thanks to Seven for the suggestion of trying out Essentials by Catalina because that's what i ended up buying and I LOVE IT! it is the best base i have used ... hands down. i bought the sls free white base and so far have made made goat's milk, honey, oatmeal ... lavender & rosemary ... shea butter with ylang ylang & lemon ... and they all turned out superb. every time i use them i get a big smile on my face ... and that's what i was going for. the EBC base cuts great, it melts great, it takes additives great, it's easy to work with. i'm one happy soap creator.

my hubby brought the twenty pound chunk in from the mail man and helped me get it out of the box and cut into smaller chunks. i am so glad that i took the chance and went for it because i love the EBC soap base. thanks again seven.

 

[lenarenee]

Urchin I'm so happy to hear that you've found a solution that you love!

Are you still interested in cold process? You commented about the difficulty in using a stick blender for 20 minutes, but there are many possible recipes where stick blending only takes a minute or two. There are videos on YouTube that can give you an idea of the entire process from melting to finish. You are the best judge of what works and what doesn't work for you, in any area of your life.

By the way, I have great respect for anyone who can enjoy melt and pour, whether they have challenges or not. While waiting for a lye order to arrive I made two batches of m&p. One took me 6.....yes 6....hours! The other took 4! One was a simple - dump some extra soap bits in the mold with m&p poured over it, the other was 2 layers with an embed.

Melt and pour is not for wimps!

 

[cmzaha]

thank you all for your suggestions. i didn't want it to be about me proving that i have celiac disease ... that it exists ... and don't want to use gluten products, but .... at any rate.

special thanks to Seven for the suggestion of trying out Essentials by Catalina because that's what i ended up buying and I LOVE IT! it is the best base i have used ... hands down. i bought the sls free white base and so far have made made goat's milk, honey, oatmeal ... lavender & rosemary ... shea butter with ylang ylang & lemon ... and they all turned out superb. every time i use them i get a big smile on my face ... and that's what i was going for. the EBC base cuts great, it melts great, it takes additives great, it's easy to work with. i'm one happy soap creator.

my hubby brought the twenty pound chunk in from the mail man and helped me get it out of the box and cut into smaller chunks. i am so glad that i took the chance and went for it because i love the EBC soap base. thanks again seven.

Glad to see you were able to handle the block, my daughter goes through over a pallet a year of Catalina's bases. They were going to stop manufacturing their bases and go to just Stephens bases which my daughter says is miserable stuff to work with. We were going to help you out and send you what you needed cut up.

 

[urchin]

thanks carolyn z ... i know why your daughter goes through a pallet of the EBC base in a year ... because it's fantastic! oh my that would suck if they stopped making it and just went with stephensen's. i bet your daughter makes some amazing soaps with it. you and your daughter are very kind to have thought of sending me some cut up base ... very kind indeed. thankfully i've got twenty pounds to play with now. thanks again carolyn.

lenarenee my stick blender is an older one that i have to hold the button in on. i just made some lotion and it took about four - five minutes to emulsify and i thought my hand would fall off. lol so, no i'm not doing cold process any time soon. One day I may decide to go for it though. I know layered melt and pour is a chore for sure. I bet yours looks better than mine. Layering is tedious, but when it comes out good it’s really pretty … mine didn’t come out so good. I’m more into moisturizing lather and fragrance right now. It’s just a simple pleasure in life that has me addicted to making soaps and cleaners with essential oils and botanicals. It’s an awesome addiction to have.

Thanks all and have a great weekend … I’m off to make some more m & p soap. Cheers.

 

[Seawolfe]

Im so glad you found a base that you like! I'd love to see pictures of what you're making with it.

 

[urchin]

seawolfe suggested i post photos of some of the soaps i've made. well here goes ... hope this works.

creating melt and pour soaps is such a great creative outlet.

wishing everyone a very merry christmas and happy holidays.

 

[Hazel]

They're all great but I especially like the owls. Those are cute! Do you mind me asking where you got the mold?

Happy Holidays to you and your family.

 

[Sheila Pullar]

I agree the Owls are really sweet x

 

[urchin]

Hazel & Sheila ... i got the owl mold from amazon. it is silicone and listed as a cake mold. my husband actually wanted it because he thought it would make for an easier to hold onto bar of soap ... he was tired of the ovals being too slippery and shooting out of his hand. he was right ... the owl shape makes for an easy to hold onto soap. they really are adorable little owls. it's a six compartment mold and each holds 3.6 ounces.

here's the link - http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00J7XNWUQ/?tag=skimlinks_replacement-20.

Merry Christmas!

sharon in FL

 

[Hazel]

Thank you! I'm going to order one as a Christmas gift for myself.

Merry Christmas and Happy New Year!

 

[Ellacho]

Urchin, those are beautiful! Love all!

 

[Sheila Pullar]

Thank you! The Owls are temporary out of stock. I will try again soon x

 

[bbrown]

I was just researching a natural base and came across this site:
http://www.elementsbathandbody.com/Soap-Base-Melt-and-Pour-Shea-Butter.html

They make no mention of discontinuing and their list of what isn't in the soap is impressive. It does have oat protein in it but is still gluten free.
I'm ordering a batch from them because I like the fact that it's gluten free and detergent free, as well as paraben free.

 

[HoneyLady]

I'm also in the camp of having medical issues that Western medicine are clueless about. Some of that is the "mind set". There is nothing wrong with a desire to quantify (weigh, measure, dissect) the world around us -- great medical strides have been made! But there is more to the philosophy, Horatio, than Heaven and Earth have dreamt of . . . :angel: Sometimes docs just "treat the disease the patient has". They forget to "treat the patient that has the disease"!

I have mild Celiac, and I can eat limited amounts of gluten, sometimes. I can use it on my skin. But, it depends on the day, the phase of the moon, the state of my other medical issues, and some mysterious X Factor(s) I've yet to identify.

But then, many of us on this forum are old enough to remember when science swore on a stack of Bibles that there was ABSOLUTELY NO physical reason for cramps, PMS, and depression. It was ALL in our heads, made us unfit to work outside the home for decades, and made us physically and mentally unable.

Now we know better. :mrgreen:

To the topic: I would seriously consider making CP. As for the stick blender, I've never yet used mine for more than 30 seconds. BUT . . .

But, all my soaps contain beeswax, so I soap at about 100-110 degrees. And all my soaps contain Coconut oil, palm kernel flakes, and lard, as well as castor oils. They set up quickly. I SB in a 5 second burst after adding lye mixture to the oils to emulsify. Then I add the FO and whisk for a good 20 seconds. Then if need be, I SB in 5 second bursts. You won't need anything like the lotion you made.

(As another note, I use Swift Crafty Monkey's "heat and hold" methods, and I don't need to mix those for 30 minutes, either. I think HEAT is the key, here.)

I *do* have to be cautious about FOs that seize. But even those can be saved -- I let them set up, then rebatch them when they sneak up on me.

You might also consider rebatch soaps. Brambleberry has some great rebatch, and lots of nice tutorials.

Good luck to you, and feel better!

~HoneyLady~