Second Batch Complete But...

[Shalisk]

Well This time around we made a nice Dragons Blood Scent (I will post pictures in 12-24 hours depending) and things went find untiiiil...

I mixxed until I got a light trace, added the FO, and smacked it with the stick blender for about 2-5 seconds (maybe a hair more no more than ten) and poured it into 2 seperate pyrex for pouring the 2 colors and this is where I noticed some stuff:

1) Near the bottom (The last little bit poured in) was (again?) fairly thick, like a watery pudding o.o and given that its a oo,co,po blend with some castor it was off yellow (normal)

2) I added what should have been enough liquid 'matte white' to color about 8 pounds of soap to one and about enough red to color 2-3 pounds of soap to the other and got a .....not-quite-what-i-thought-red and a 'off yellow it didnt whiten at al really O.O

3) When I poured it was now the consistancy of pudding. Not THICK pudding mind you, it still poured (It didnt glop out) but it definatly was thick O.O

What could have caused these issues so I can try to avoid in the future.

My pour temp was 110-120 they were not perfectly synched but within 5 degrees of each other or so...did I just blend too long?

On the upside everything else went great, no issues with measuring, less spillage (The eye dropper thing didnt work for the FO OR the Dye Guess its back to the drawing board) the scent is amazing, even tried a quick swirl to see how that goes.

Also, how long should I keep it insulated before freeing up my 'hot box' for another batch of soap? Until im ready to unmold? 1-2 hrs? 2-6? o.o;

 

[Obsidian]

Your batter probably looked more yellow then normal from the dragons blood. Mine is quite yellow and made the batter look weird. DB is know for discoloring though so don't be surprised if your bars get darker. within a week, mine went from a light yellowy brown to a very dark chocolate.

If you want really white soap, you need to use scent that doesn't discolor and never use virgin olive oil. It really doesn't take much titanium dioxide to whiten a batch when using lighter oils.

It extremely difficult to get a true red in CP. Most people have to mix different colorants and even then, its often more of a deep pink. You can use merlot mica from brambleberry to get a nice maroon, its what I swirl in mt DB bars, it even shows after the color change.

Not sure about the watery bit in the bottom. Does your mixing bowl have a wide bottom or is it narrow? You might try giving it a good stir with a spatula before pouring in case the stick blender didn't quite get the oil around the edges.

If you want more time to play with your batter before it thickens, mix it at room temp and try adding the FO before the lye.

 

[Shalisk]

Your batter probably looked more yellow then normal from the dragons blood. Mine is quite yellow and made the batter look weird. DB is know for discoloring though so don't be surprised if your bars get darker. within a week, mine went from a light yellowy brown to a very dark chocolate.

If you want really white soap, you need to use scent that doesn't discolor and never use virgin olive oil. It really doesn't take much titanium dioxide to whiten a batch when using lighter oils.

It extremely difficult to get a true red in CP. Most people have to mix different colorants and even then, its often more of a deep pink. You can use merlot mica from brambleberry to get a nice maroon, its what I swirl in mt DB bars, it even shows after the color change.

Not sure about the watery bit in the bottom. Does your mixing bowl have a wide bottom or is it narrow? You might try giving it a good stir with a spatula before pouring in case the stick blender didn't quite get the oil around the edges.

If you want more time to play with your batter before it thickens, mix it at room temp and try adding the FO before the lye.

Noted! These are all great notes, but wont the gel phase not come (Or take longer) if mixxed at room temp? I was 'always told' that mixxing them at higher temps was better for some mystery reason

Any idea about the time it takes to go through Gel? I only have the one box

And if this one does not fully Gel I really have no idea what im doing wrong :/

 

[FlybyStardancer]

Sometimes soap doesn't gel even with insulation. I have yet to have a soap gel for me, with or without insulation. The only thing I haven't tried yet is adding external heat, which is on my list of things to try. (I bought a heating pad specifically for this, though I've only used it for more traditional heating pad uses. My oven's broken, so I can't CPOP batches.)

 

[Shalisk]

This is somthing I am looking at myself, but I think putting a heating pad, under a mold, surrounded by towels, in a air tight box is screaming for a fire in my extra room, isnt it?

 

[Shalisk]

I admit, I peeked (But only to put a heating pad under it) and there is a big brown spot in the center (oval shaped) in the middle of the loaf, now I am kinda hoping that is just part of the gel Phase, and that it will work itself out. BUt we will know in a few hours ya? We can do that ^.^

 

[seven]

red is very hard to achieve. try mixing some merlot mica with fluorescent pink, or use a red 30 (i think) dye.

i don't temp anymore. i soap rt, much more easier.

 

[Shalisk]

But doing it at RT, doesnt that mess up your gel phase or at the very least get the oils to seperate? Maybe ill try it next batch

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Unfortunately the questions with gelling are akin to asking "how long is a piece of string?". Each recipe, mould, house temperature, temp of soap when moulded - so many variables - affect the gelling. They all work together to get the soap hot, cold or just right. The best way to find what works is to experiement.

There was a great thread about putting a partial gelled soap in to the oven to get it to finish gel - http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=39457&highlight=cpop+fact worth a read.

 

[Susie]

I know that it is so very tempting to make batch after batch of soap when one is learning how to make soap. I don't think it is the best idea to do so, however. I think one needs to wait until batch 1 and 2 have time to cure before making more.

It is impossible to know how an oil blend is going to work out until that soap has cured. The differences between a 2 week old soap and an 8 week old soap are HUGE! You might hate the qualities of that soap. You need time to find out before wasting more resources making soap that you won't want to use.

 

[pamielynn]

Even if you soap at RT, the exothermic reaction should still bring it to gel.

I admit, I peeked (But only to put a heating pad under it) and there is a big brown spot in the center (oval shaped) in the middle of the loaf, now I am kinda hoping that is just part of the gel Phase, and that it will work itself out. BUt we will know in a few hours ya? We can do that ^.^

That's your gel phase. Stop peeking, lol!

 

[AcornSky]

Another newcomer here, who has made a second batch (I really didn't need to wait to learn from the first one - you may remember my scrambled egg aniseed soap). Can you tell us what changes are going to take place during cure?

Mine has had almost a week, and I have used a sliver of it - it seems very good. Not too sure about the fragrance (will that change? It's an EO), but it lathers beautifully and feels nice. Will it get even more lathery? I know it will get harder and therefore longer lasting - I can see that it has hardened quite a bit over the first week.

I am dying to use colours, but I don't want to waste time and materials until I have the right recipe (which may well be the one I've just made).

In the meantime I am making creams and lotions, which I'm finding to be every bit as addictive as soap-making, but more immediate. I'm also trying not to place a big order online. Not trying too hard though.

I do have a recipe for a facial soap that is very different from the other I have made, so I might give that a go on the basis that I will be learning different things from this one, and the comparison of the two will be interesting.

See how I'm talking myself out of waiting... :razz:

 

[Shalisk]

I know that it is so very tempting to make batch after batch of soap when one is learning how to make soap. I don't think it is the best idea to do so, however. I think one needs to wait until batch 1 and 2 have time to cure before making more.

It is impossible to know how an oil blend is going to work out until that soap has cured. The differences between a 2 week old soap and an 8 week old soap are HUGE! You might hate the qualities of that soap. You need time to find out before wasting more resources making soap that you won't want to use.

I understand the polite way of saying "Hey quit asking so many damn questions and quit making soap" But the fact is that I try several oil blends, no two recipes are the same right now.

Each batch I learn somthing new about the process and get to try suggestions I read in threads, or ones given directly to me. Because when the batches have cured for 3-4 weeks (Preferrably 4) I have six people and myself all ready, willing (And a couple quite anxiously awaiting) the ability to try them all. To tell me what they like and dont like about each batch.

I am learning how my scents effect my oil blends, diffrent ways to try to blend, many aspects of the process CAN be learned without 'the wait' for the final product to be finished.

Many tried and true companies, people and biz's have done similar, some did not learn from the mistakes (Like the DSM cars (lazer, Eclipse, etc) ) and some did (Toyota, Kia etc) Just because you don't like the color green does not mean the car was a failure, but why did this type of hose break under pressure?

Once you understand what goes wrong, you can adapt, fix, tweek until its 'right' once THAT is right, you can proceed and find what you 'like'. If that makes sense?

Why should I wait (Beyond price, discussed below) 2-4 weeks to make a second attempt at making 'soap' and fixing an error in my process, that error was there before the curing process started. Thus, there is no need to wait to attempt to fix that error.

Once Errors are fixxed, continue until next error, fix error move to next one, and so on until you have a properly made product. THEN focus on 'well this scent stinks. I didnt like this oil combonation but I liked this one here..." (Hence the diffrent recipes I use) My first batch my current room mate is using and loves it (Despite him not waiting till it was finished curing *shakes fist*)


As for the 'wasting resources' this is a very thin line for me, I do not concider any resource used in the process of learning, educating myself (Or anyone who reads my threads filled with questions about 'what happened' and the knowlege there-in) as 'wasted' the materials are (for me) fairly inexpensive, and the education priceless.

Though if I am being a pest, I will stop bothering ya'll with my workings and simply read and lurk in the forums (As I did before I actually signed up)

I am not trying to sound defensive or Snarky (So please dont take it that way) I just have trouble explaining my views and tend to over explane I am always open to anyones insight, and for some the resources being 'wasted' is a concern, for me, its not. (I mean I already put my order in for a tank cutter) In fact, the opposite for me is true, the longer I wait the worse it is for my personal resources. (Long story lol)

I hope this helps understand why I do what I do, and if not, please feel free to PM Me I dont wanna spam people more than I already do.

 

[Shalisk]

Anyway, before I got side tracked I planned to post pictures of the second batch. It smells right, and came out firm, but Olive Oil clearly does not like being colored, what was supposed to be white (And I used enough liquid color to choke a horse) came out looking like those Maple candies (If only it was a maple soap)

Besides that, it came out of the mold easily, and smells good, I tried a basic little pattern I saw on youtube with a chopstick but I dont think it worked well. Oh well. Atleast this time I was able to get the two colors in and at least make it work.

 

[Susie]

I know you don't know me, but I am not ever one to say this but mean that. Had I thought you needed to stop asking questions, I would have said so straight to you.

Questions are good. Questions are how we all learn. I am still learning from you asking something, and reading what others say in reply to you. That is how this forum helps all of us. So, I really need to say thank you for asking so many questions, because I am still picking up info.

I really do mean that you may hate a soap you made. It happened to me. Tossed that whole batch. I hate wasting stuff. Had I waited until I tried the previous recipe after 6-8 week cure, I would not have made it. I learned my lesson. No more making more of anything until I have waited for the first version to get a full cure.

I try to share my bad experiences so others can avoid doing the same thing. I think most people would rather learn from someone else's mistakes.

My most sincere apologies for making you believe that I wanted you to stop making soap or stop asking questions. I truly did not intend for it to sound that way. Just trying to save you some possible angst.

 

[Shalisk]

No no, Nothing to apologise for. I am completely alright with anyone saying things to me and such, I just am /bad/ at reading between the lines, thats why the internet medium is good for me, I can read it, erase and edit and try to explane better so I dont come out looking like a ass....most of the time.