Salycilate free or low salicylate help please!

[Teresa408]

I’m testing a salicylate free diet, and so far it has been helpful for my symptoms. It’s early to say for sure, but I’m feeling that I may be on this diet for the foreseeable future.

Can anyone point me toward information for a new soaper when it comes to making salicylate free soap? I need to know what oils, preservatives, and fragrances are okay to use. Any and all information is appreciated. I would love to be able to whip up a batch this week, but all that I know I can use so far is canola, lard (but mine is Manteca and has preservatives), cocoa butter, Shea, and beeswax. Maybe I can get away with some coconut oil if I reduce the SF? I was about to buy some ROE but I don’t know how safe that is for me or even what my alternatives might be.

I just started to get the hang of things and now I feel like I have to relearn everything.

Attached some pics of soap I made last week that may end up distributed to friends and neighbors.

 

[BattleGnome]

I use Manteca for soap with no issues. The preservatives would be the only potential issue, I don’t know what preservatives they use.

You can make a soap with what you have. I used to use a similar recipe to this one:
20% cocobutter
20% Shea
60% canola

It needs a longer cure in my opinion but could work for you. I’ve never used beeswax but you could probably use up to 5% (lower the canola). It wasn’t my favorite recipe but it gives you an option for somewhere to start while you figure out what ingredients work for you

 

[shunt2011]

Unfortunately you're going to have to do the research on what different products may or may not contain. I would use lard and HO Canola. You can also make 100% lard. I have no recommendations as I don't make any high butter soaps. Too costly.

 

[Dawni]

Apparently there are bloggers out there who have lists of bath n body products that are "salicylate free."

I looked at several and noticed these are the most commonly used:
Rice bran oil
Safflower
Sunflower
Palm
Palm kernel
Shea butter
Cocoa
Mango
Beeswax
Candelilla
Carnauba
Jojoba wax
Tallow
All the gums (xantham, arabic, etc)
Emu oil
Tetrasosium EDTA
Titanium dioxide
Glycerin

You'll have to do more research since this list is in no way a definitive one and I read a lot also depends on your tolerance. Some of these are ok for some, but bad for others.

Several sites say to stay away from all essential oils, especially the mints and eucalyptus. Unfortunately no aloe vera for you too.

I also noticed most of the syndets are salicylate free, if you wanna go in that direction. Micas and most FOs seem to be ok.

Hope this helps you at least get started. Love your soaps btw, that second one is gorgeous!

Edit:
Oh I found this site! There's a very long list of things that are salicylate free.
https://christinescozycorner.ca/ing...-and-safe-to-use-in-the-guaifenesin-protocol/

 

[Teresa408]

Unfortunately you're going to have to do the research on what different products may or may not contain. I would use lard and HO Canola. You can also make 100% lard. I have no recommendations as I don't make any high butter soaps. Too costly.

Unfortunately the information I’m finding so far doesn’t spell out which oils are okay, except to list a few commonly used for cooking, which is why I asked here thinking people who make soap might have more information.

 

[Teresa408]

Apparently there are bloggers out there who have lists of bath n body products that are "salicylate free."

I looked at several and noticed these are the most commonly used:
Rice bran oil
Safflower
Sunflower
Palm
Palm kernel
Shea butter
Cocoa
Mango
Beeswax
Candelilla
Carnauba
Jojoba wax
Tallow
All the gums (xantham, arabic, etc)
Emu oil
Tetrasosium EDTA
Titanium dioxide
Glycerin

You'll have to do more research since this list is in no way a definitive one and I read a lot also depends on your tolerance. Some of these are ok for some, but bad for others.

Several sites say to stay away from all essential oils, especially the mints and eucalyptus. Unfortunately no aloe vera for you too.

I also noticed most of the syndets are salicylate free, if you wanna go in that direction. Micas and most FOs seem to be ok.

Hope this helps you at least get started. Love your soaps btw, that second one is gorgeous!

Edit:
Oh I found this site! There's a very long list of things that are salicylate free.
https://christinescozycorner.ca/ing...-and-safe-to-use-in-the-guaifenesin-protocol/

As usual you are so helpful and kind, Dawni! I did not even think to check for bloggers on the subject!

Your link has some great information and leads me back to a question I have not figured out yet about guaifenesin vs. salicylate, which I don’t yet understand but surely is outside the scope of this forum. I’ll need to read up on that because per guaifenesin PKO is okay, and per salicylate, it’s not. I’ve jumped into the deep end of this pool and I don’t know what I’m doing yet, but I’m starting to feel better so I’m determined to figure it out.

Another link within the one you gave is a German site that has a database where you can look up individual ingredients. I’ll link in case someone in my situation stumbles into this thread in the future:

http://www.fibromyalgie-guaifenesin.info/en/salsearch/

I think I will order some rice bran oil, and more cocoa and Shea because they are awesome. I considered ROE but according to the database that is no good so I may need to find some EDTA.

I just received some sodium citrate to cope with my hard water and fortunately that is okay to use.

I am sure the lard I have with BHT is less than ideal but I have it so I think I will try to use it with some canola or at 100%. Maybe some sugar will help with the lack of bubbles.

Sorry for being so long and rambling, I’m flustered and it’s probably showing in my writing.

Thanks again Dawni, I have some direction now, at least!

 

[Dawni]

You're most welcome

I agree, rice bran oil is great. That plus the butters should make a nice soap if you can find a way to make bubbles, but I think it should make creamy lather.

Maybe this link would interest you.. Single oil tests where those particular fats, plus lard and tallow, are ranked as some of the best. Might be something to look into if you don't find alternatives, or while you're still looking...
http://www.zensoaps.com/singleoil.htm

Edit: added link

 

[Teresa408]

I use Manteca for soap with no issues. The preservatives would be the only potential issue, I don’t know what preservatives they use.

You can make a soap with what you have. I used to use a similar recipe to this one:
20% cocobutter
20% Shea
60% canola

It needs a longer cure in my opinion but could work for you. I’ve never used beeswax but you could probably use up to 5% (lower the canola). It wasn’t my favorite recipe but it gives you an option for somewhere to start while you figure out what ingredients work for you

Do you avoid salicylates as well? I do love the way lard feels and the BHT is probably such a small amount. I am probably not so sensitive that a tiny bit of salicylate will ruin my day. I’m still figuring it out. I think I’ll try a lard one and one without so that in six weeks I will have options.

I’m thinking:

Lard 55
Canola 35
Shea/cocoa 5% each?

I might try a 100% lard just because I haven’t before.

 

[penelopejane]

I’m allergic to salicylates and so are my sons. It is why I started making soap. The really annoying thing is that everyone has different things they are highly allergic to. So it’s a matter of trial and error. I can’t eat coconut or corn or mint or honey. So I avoid those. But lately I find I can have 10% coconut oil in a recipe without getting a reaction so I use that but not all the time. I haven’t tried cocoa butter. It worries me a bit because cocoa is high in salicylates.

I don’t drink tea or coffee. My sister eats honey with no problem. One of my sons didn’t react to anything except ginger but he had a huge reaction to it. He had eczema too.

I don’t want to be totally salicylate free because it means when I do have some salicylate I react really badly. I want my salicylate levels to be fairly low, below my threshold but not too low.

One thing to avoid, especially in toothpaste is mint. Your toothpaste is really important because you use it so often and it seems to infiltrate quickly and easily.

So no mint FO or EO. I find I’m better with FOs than EOs of any type.
I can have 10% coconut in my soap without reaction.
I don’t use EDTA or BHT so that cuts out lard and most hand made soap in shops and on line. Careful if you use other people’s handmade soap - not everyone labels ALL ingredients. I don’t think I’ve ever seen any one list BHT.

I use olive oil which I eat as well. It might be my salicylate thing that keeps me balanced I don’t know but I have less reaction to it than other oils that are really low in salicylates-it might be the preservatives in other oils. I use EVOO but as long as it doesn’t have refined oils in it it would be ok. Don’t use pomace - it has too many chemicals.

Avoid micas because red and yellow colouring can be problematic.
There are some things I should be able to have but just can’t - caramel and cashews. I react to cashews even natural ones, so I would avoid that oil for me.

Be really careful with “natural” colours. Spices are extremely high in salicylates and can give me a really, really severe reaction. I had a shocking reaction to spiraling. Activated charcoal is good for colouring.,

If you can work out your symptoms (I now get a tingling burning mouth when I eat something I shouldn’t so I avoid all those foods even as additives to soap) you are well on your way to wellness.

There isn’t much use putting less than 10% of an oil in a batch. I can’t tell the difference. Except for castor oil which I use at 5%. Also 100% single oils won’t tell you much because you can often use that oil at 10% with no problem.

Very best of luck.

 

[Teresa408]

I’m allergic to salicylates and so are my sons. It is why I started making soap. The really annoying thing is that everyone has different things they are highly allergic to. So it’s a matter of trial and error. I can’t eat coconut or corn or mint I can have 10% without getting a severe reaction so I avoid those.

I don’t want to be totally salicylate free because it means when I do have some salicylate I react really badly. I want my salicylate levels to be fairly low, below my threshold but not too low.

One thing to avoid, especially in toothpaste is mint. Your toothpaste is really important because you use it so often and it seems to infiltrate quickly and easily.

So no mint FO or EO. I find I’m better with FOs than EOs of any type.
I can have 10% coconut in my soap without reaction.
I don’t use EDTA or BHT so that cuts out lard and most hand made soap in shops and on line.

I use olive oil which I eat as well. It might be my salicylate thing that keeps me balanced I don’t know.

Avoid micas because red and yellow colouring can be problematic.

If you can work out your symptoms (I now get a tingling burning mouth when I eat something I shouldn’t so I avoid all those foods even as additives to soap) you are well on your way to wellness.

Very best of luck.

I don’t have terrible skin reactions, I am sensitive but mine is mainly digestive and sometimes headaches, but I did notice when I used my face oil blend last week (olive, coconut, castor, Rosehip) that my lips tingled. I’ve switched to canola oil on my face when I need a little more than my S-free neutrogena lotion can provide.

I was worried about going too salicylate free, since at some point I’m going to inadvertently eat things with a little “bad” ingredients if I’m traveling or for social occasions or something. The good news for me is that I was on a salicylate medication and only taking a low dose of it because that’s all I could tolerate before the migraines kicked in, then added another S-free medication and improved some. So hopefully cutting just the worst offenders along with the medication I’ve discontinued will be enough. The tingling lips tells me that maybe olive oil is on my NO list. It’s very appreciated that you validated that as a sign for me because I thought I was maybe imagining that. maybe I can “zap test” my lard to see if the BHT is okay? I hope a little coconut oil is okay for me too, if I could do just 10-15% in soap that would be nice. I taste coconut oil sometimes when I have it open for cooking (it just smells sooo good) and I’ve not noticed a reaction yet. I think getting “clean” can sort of heighten reaction though so I will continue to test carefully.

Are there other colors besides the natural ones you can use? I have madder root and annetto seeds for yellow and red which are probably okay (?! Actually I better look that up) but if mica is a potential problem maybe I should avoid them completely(in my own soaps at least).

 

[penelopejane]

Olive, coconut, castor and Rosehip reaction doesn’t necessarily mean the OO is the culprit. Test every one separately and more than once.

Salicylates can cause (in me) itchy skin, crankiness, hyperactivity, dizziness, headaches, oedema in my legs, stomach problems (!), vomiting, vertigo, insomnia, nodules on my lungs and kidneys, keritosis (in many forms) and tinnitus. One of my sons gets migraines with no pain but black and white vision and then vomiting. One of my sons gets hyperactive.

Don’t ignore it but find a balance of low salicylate that you can live with but without any symptoms at all.

I haven’t used an Annatto or madder root yet. I have both ready to try. The clays are fine for colour. I only use natural colour and only those that I don’t react to or are very low in salicylates. That’s an easy place to avoid salicylates in your diet. Salicylates do transmit through your skin.

There are some things that might give me a low reaction that I might not know about but they all add up. I’m older now and am getting nodules on my lungs and other symptoms that I never had or noticed before. It is just not worth the risk. I wish I had known more about it when I was younger. I didn’t discover my family’s intolerance (on my father’s side) until my son was 4 and having severe reactions. We had him tested and realised we all had it we just didn’t know. Luckily my mother was a plain cook and never cooked with pre-prepared
Foods and she didn’t push me to eat foods I didn’t like (I must mage instinctively known some foods made me sick) so I had a good low salicylate diet when I was young.

BHT just isn’t worth it for me in food or soap. You have to work out what you are prepared to accept.

 

[Teresa408]

I went to the store yesterday and got S-free soap, toothpaste, shampoo, and a few cosmetics (no wonder everything I put on my face before used to ITCH).

I’m so sorry you and your family have had so much trouble and thank you so much for sharing your experience with me. My adult son actually has ADHD as well, so I will definitely encourage him to try this to see if it helps him. My mother has always had severe skin sensitivity (like if the countertop isn’t rinsed after cleaning and she touches it she has a terrible rash) and allergy sinus issues and my brother and I both have different IBDs, with less sensitive skin and allergies. My mother was always cooking things from scratch, which may have helped delay most of the symptoms for myself and my brother. We didn’t get really sick till around our 30’s. I have another brother who seems to be mostly bomb proof with his allergies ‍

I’ve definitely noticed general fatigue and some unexplained high heart rates (80-100 bpm out of nowhere for no reason, I wear a Fitbit now) and I’m not in terrible shape, I used to coach HIIT training and lift regularly not too long ago. I think that’s what set my cortisol levels off during a period when I was too intense about it.

Now that you mention the dizziness, it occurs to me that the times I’ve been sick in the past 5 or 10 years, I have taken day quil in an effort to get myself back to work and I always got vertigo and felt even worse. I never put that together before, but I guess I was making myself worse!

Ive heard of allergens “stacking” when you get small exposures repeatedly, which is going to be inevitable with this but it seems that knowing what the exposures are will be the key, so that I know what days I can bend the dietary rules a bit and when I can’t. I’ve stopped all my supplements since I don’t know for sure if my spirulina/chlorella, etc. is good or bad for me anymore. I have read that fish oil is important in particular for IBD people with salicylate sensitivity, so I will continue that once I check for additives on the label.

I’ve got a lot of experimenting to do. I hope that olive oil is okay for me to use, it’s so common and hard to avoid. I’ll do some testing of different things and see how it goes. Meanwhile, I’m eating a lot of lentils and rice and other simple foods.

Thank you so much for shedding some light on this for me. I’m so relieved to get some answers that make sense and at the same time frustrated that I couldn’t figure this out sooner. Hopefully this will help to get me on the road to recovery and remission.

 

[penelopejane]

Try colour and preservative free for your son with ADD. We were told my son had it when he was young but it completely went away when he went colour and preservative free at a very young age. low salicylates helped too. The thing was his symptoms were different to my other son so it took a while to click that he was also salicylate intolerant.

Spirulina is evil!! lol

The thing with salicylates is that it takes 3 days to get out of your system. If you continue to have little doses it remains at high levels. So when you test things you have to have a food diary and be really sensible and patient about it.

Sometimes an illness can set off a worse reaction than you’ve ever had before but it does seem to get worse as you get older - for my family anyway. But it also could be all the stuff in food that you don’t see - chemicals, colours, additives even in fresh unprocessed food. I’m also gluten intolerant (for the last few years set off by an infection we think) so that doesn’t help. Gluten free without corn - so easy

Try adding activated charcoal to your shampoo and conditioner! About 1 tsp per bottle. It works wells. Hair is shiny and no itching.

Good luck with it all. It is a pain that everyone is different but there is a lot of good (and a lot of bad) stuff on the internet that helps now.

What salicylates do is cause inflammation so what you are trying to do is reduce inflammation. Most anti inflammation foods are high in salicylates so you have to be careful. Stress also causes inflammation. So meditation and exercise help.

 

[Teresa408]

I’ll try to get my son to try it but he’s away at school so it will be hard to get him to eat very well. I took him out for a haircut and lunch a month ago and he asked for Taco Bell, of all things. It might be easier when he graduates and I can help him with shopping.

It’s so crazy that spirulina is bad for you! It’s supposed to be so healthy! But I’m learning that I can’t assume anything anymore. I do keep a food diary, it’s kind of off and on, but since this popped up it’s been on again.

After I was first diagnosed with IBD and I had a dental issue and a ton of antibiotics, I was gluten free for a good decade up until about a year ago. It put me in remission after a few months for about a year or two, and then when it stopped working I assumed that I needed another diet change in addition, but never considered that gluten was now okay for me. I guess I’m saying don’t be like me. Test a little every now and then and see if you can tolerate it. I missed out on fresh sourdough every time I made it out to the city for a decade, and a million other little treats that I thought I couldn’t have.

Sadly, I seem to be intolerant of dairy, soy, cashews, and chocolate in addition to this new salicylate issue. But it’s all okay with me if it means I can figure it out and be well.

Thank you again for your help. I’m sure you know how hard it is having a condition and diet that makes people look at you like you have two heads, so the validation is so very helpful. I wish you and your family an abundance of symptom free happy days.

 

[penelopejane]

You too. At least you know you are not alone
What I am trying to say in my long winded way is that this is something you can learn to live with.
I can go to a thai restaurant and eat anything and as long as I am careful the next 3 days I will have no reaction. I can drink champagne and scotch. I can be thankful for the almond and orange GF cake that someone thinks I can eat. I have a small piece and eat it and if I am careful for the next 3 days I won't have a reaction. Except for corn and coconut I can eat a small amount of anything and I am ok. It's the symptoms that you can't see that are a worry so it is better for me to stick to a moderately low salicylate diet. Don't cut them out totally, just learn what you can't tolerate.

I see to be ok with sour dough bread but in small amounts but I don't have it very often at all. I still react to gluten The doctors tell me that it is putting too much pressure on my system and I am better off without it. But I will check it. Nothing is static it seems.

I can't have cashew, chocolate or soy either. Chocolate has salicylates but cashew is supposed to be low so I don't get that. I have a quick bad reaction to Cashews. It is a deadly nightshade plant though so maybe there is something in that? It is high in Lectins too. Not sure if that is a legitimate thing or not. Somethings are just not worth the reaction you get.

Thank goodness I can eat dairy!
My kids went away to school too. They learnt that if they ate something they couldn't they'd be sick. Sometimes they ate it anyway and put up with throwing up because it was so good.
Too much salicylate causing reactions can stunt their growth though. That might make them think.

Good luck.

 

[Teresa408]

I’m pretty sure I’ve got a nightshade issue. Peppers, eggplant and tomatoes get me every time. Tomato sauce is instant torture. It never made much sense why it was so much worse than raw fresh tomato but understanding now that it’s both a salicylate and a nightshade, it makes more sense.

 

[penelopejane]

I’m pretty sure I’ve got a nightshade issue. Peppers, eggplant and tomatoes get me every time. Tomato sauce is instant torture. It never made much sense why it was so much worse than raw fresh tomato but understanding now that it’s both a salicylate and a nightshade, it makes more sense.

The salicylate is also more concentrated in the skin of a lot of fruit and veg.
So if you peel a tomato and take the seeds out there will be less reaction.
Sauces (even your own spaghetti bolognaise sauce) are much more concentrated than the straight plant so more salicylates.

My boys (who NEED tomato sauce) are better off with BBQ sauce because there is more apple in it than tomato. One son who hates all fruit and vegetables except potato (some make him sick but he just thinks he hates them) was horrified when he found that out but he still eats it!!

Cheese is the same. I can generally eat cheese. Better with goats milk cheese than others but if is dried out and powdered on chips or anything that makes it very highly concentrated I react badly.

Potatoes are nightshade family too and I am trying to cut back on them but I just simply can't give them up completely or my diet will be void of anything nice I love potato bake!

 

[earlene]

I have never thought of salycilates in terms of soap before. This is a very interesting thread.

Have you seen this link? : https://www.webmd.com/allergies/salicylate-allergy

It says to avoid peppermint, mint, spearmint and menthol. All are used in some soaps, so I thought I would mention that link.

 

[Dawni]

Oh how stupid. I forgot to add the link I mentioned above lol it was supposed to be this one.

Glad you found better advice @Teresa408. It can be so difficult to weed through online sources and risk your health.

 

[BattleGnome]

Do you avoid salicylates as well?

The only thing I’m allergic to is shipping costs. I was able to find cocobutter and Shea at my local co-op early in my soaping career and wanted to play with new things.

My current recipe is along the lines of: (been a while since I’ve soaped and I don’t have my recipe near)
40-50% lard
20% coconut
20% Shea
10-20% sunflower

My only complaint about my current recipe is that the coconut and Shea turn non-Newtonian on me once I reach trace, but it’s easy to work around.

If you decide a 100%lard be prepared to only use it with a bath poof or wash cloth. I’m not a bubble person but 100% lard makes me feel like one.