Running into problems with batch of CP soap with honey

[Imactuallymute]

I tried using honey in a batch of CP soap and started mixing at a low temp, around 100f for both lye mix and fat (it's what google's new ai searching thing said to do). When i got a good emulsion and made my first pour into one of my molds the emulsion immediately broke and the soap started to sweat/leak this crimson red liquid that just kept making the soap redder and redder. The two new variables that I think could've caused this were the essential/fragrance oils and the honey. I doubt the honey did it but ive also never had that issue before with any fragrance ive ever used. Im also unsure if mixing at a higher temp would help just because it was such a weird problem to me. any help is appreciated, im sure this is a simple issue im just experiencing for the first time

 

[Kamahido]

Is the fragrance formulated for Cold Process soap making?

 

[Misschief]

I'd say it was the honey, contributing to overheating. The red colour is a bit of a giveaway.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

Yes, honey does turn the soap batter reddish once one pours in the lye water, but that dissipates with time.
The comment about the emulsion breaking, though, does not sound like an issue caused by honey. Do you believe you really had reached emulsion?

 

[AliOop]

I vote for the honey causing the reddish color, and the FO causing the separation.

 

[Imactuallymute]

Yes, honey does turn the soap batter reddish once one pours in the lye water, but that dissipates with time.
The comment about the emulsion breaking, though, does not sound like an issue caused by honey. Do you believe you really had reached emulsion?

I really dont have any success getting good emulsions when i start at 100 degrees or so so i really think the soap just cooled down too much. It was mostly coconut oil anyways so it's going to be a bit harder at low temp. I could've tried to mix it up more but it was a small batch so no stick blender and the red color really freaked me out lol

Is the fragrance formulated for Cold Process soap making?

I'm not sure but it probably is fine. it's some kind of essential oil my mom bought to use in this batch as its for an event.

 

[cmzaha]

I would guess it overheated and caused the separation. I would soap that at a lower temp myself. I tend to soap as cool as 75º especially when using honey and/or GM, especially if I am using a fragrance I know can heat up. You can actually have more problems with emulsions holding together using higher temps than cooler temps as long as you are not below 70º F in my experience, since overheating causes separation. You really need to know the source of your EO and if it is a pure eo or fragrance oil. Also, what is the EO, so can be trouble makers. I find honey powder does not tend to cause the overheating problems that liquid honey does.

 

[KiwiMoose]

Why don't you try mixing to medium trace rather than just emulsion? That would minimise the risk of separation.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

I find honey powder does not tend to cause the overheating problems that liquid honey does.

Hopefully, not going too far off topic - what was your source for honey powder? I'd like to try that.

 

[cmzaha]

Hopefully, not going too far off topic - what was your source for honey powder? I'd like to try that.

https://www.hoosierhillfarm.com/shop-products/premium-honey-powder/

 

[Imactuallymute]

Why don't you try mixing to medium trace rather than just emulsion? That would minimise the risk of separation.

I should've worded it better. I did go to what i thought was around a light to medium trace. I have had a lot of trouble in the past with my soap thickening up super fast and becoming hard to pour so I think i have a bad habit of pouring too soon.

 

[cmzaha]

I should've worded it better. I did go to what i thought was around a light to medium trace. I have had a lot of trouble in the past with my soap thickening up super fast and becoming hard to pour so I think i have a bad habit of pouring too soon.

I pour when I barely get a stable emulsion and all is fine as long as my batter does not overheat. I soap with a 30-33% Lye Concentration depending on which formula I am using. For one of my formulas, I hit it with the SB a couple of seconds separate for my colors, quickly stir in my fragrance in my main batter and pour. As long as I do not see shiny oils floating on the top I am good to go for pouring. It makes no difference how thin the batter is as long as your oils are not separating. There are some videos showing how to recognize a stable emulsion.

 

[Nona'sFarm]

https://www.hoosierhillfarm.com/shop-products/premium-honey-powder/

Thanks!
I make a goatmilk, honey, & oatmeal soap that I sometimes have trouble with overheating. I want to try it in that.

 

[Imactuallymute]

I pour when I barely get a stable emulsion and all is fine as long as my batter does not overheat. I soap with a 30-33% Lye Concentration depending on which formula I am using. For one of my formulas, I hit it with the SB a couple of seconds separate for my colors, quickly stir in my fragrance in my main batter and pour. As long as I do not see shiny oils floating on the top I am good to go for pouring. It makes no difference how thin the batter is as long as your oils are not separating. There are some videos showing how to recognize a stable emulsion.

I'll try it again today with a bit less honey to help with the color and adding the fragrance to the trace rather than the oils before the lye