Rose Wax

[IngridK]

Hi all!
Just wondering if anyone here had experience in adding rose wax to their soaps. I cannot find any 'intel' if it has a SAP value so I am assuming not. I added it to a batch of cream soap over the weekend and it is separting. No big; the stuff on the top will make amazing shave cream... once I get the two apart I will have a look as to what the oily stuff wants to do and use it up accordingly.

I am thinking I might have one of two issues going on here;
1- dummy here forgot to check the temp and may have emulsified at too low of a temp (note to self; stop talking to the best friends kid and pay attention next time)
2- the rose wax did something to me that someone here might be aware of.
TIA
Ingrid

 

[amd]

I don't know if this will be of help, but I did a quick Google search and found a few hits.

Other thoughts:
1. how much wax did you use? typically wax has very minimal/none SAP value so should be used in small amounts.
2. Before you use that top stuff, be sure to do a zap test to make sure it isn't lye heavy.

 

[Misschief]

Interesting. I still have some orange (neroli) wax around here somewhere. It might be time for an experiment.

 

[IngridK]

I don't know if this will be of help, but I did a quick Google search and found a few hits.

Other thoughts:
1. how much wax did you use? typically wax has very minimal/none SAP value so should be used in small amounts.
2. Before you use that top stuff, be sure to do a zap test to make sure it isn't lye heavy.

Thanks for the google link, sometimes I get too specific when searching... I should have thought to put in more general terms!

I used about a half ounce...

I have strip tested the top layer and it is showing a nice green so it is around 8-9 - that was 24 hours after the 'cook' and before the separation began. I'll be sure to test both layers again once it has had time to settle.

I just double checked the math... I used .03% rose wax in the formula...
4.6 almond
6 coconut
4 palm
2 stearic acid
2.4 Potassium Hydroxide
.7 Sodium Hydroxide
18 water
1 glycerine for superfat

 

[amd]

Half an ounce in how much oils?

pH strips aren't going to tell you if it is lye heavy, only what the pH of your soap is.

Ooops! Posted the same time you did

 

[IngridK]

Interesting. I still have some orange (neroli) wax around here somewhere. It might be time for an experiment.

Until now (and finding a supplier in Bangalore where the cost became affordable for testing) I only ever used rose wax for lotions because of the cost... rose is amazing on the skin! Just amazing!

Half an ounce in how much oils?

pH strips aren't going to tell you if it is lye heavy, only what the pH of your soap is.

Ooops! Posted the same time you did

I never taste the stuff until I have completed the rot... I'm a sensitive beastie... ;-)

On that note; I cannot remember the 'official name' of the chemical where you can test for lye... anyone here have a cheerful supplier in Canada they could recommend. Right now I am just making for myself but as time goes by I will want to give my stuff away as gifts... would like to know all is good before the product leaves my hands.

 

[amd]

Ah! I completely missed that this is liquid soap. (One of the pitfalls of using 'New Posts' instead of reading each forum individually) I'm gracefully bowing out of giving advice in favor of someone with more liquid soap experience chiming in.

 

[earlene]

Phenolphthalein is probably what you're looking for. No Canada suppliers lists from me, though, sorry.

 

[IngridK]

Ah! I completely missed that this is liquid soap. (One of the pitfalls of using 'New Posts' instead of reading each forum individually) I'm gracefully bowing out of giving advice in favor of someone with more liquid soap experience chiming in.

No Worries, no worries at all... thank you for your help thus far.

I posted here because I truly am a newbie with barely a dozen batches under my belt. My bad for not stating that this was a liquid recipe from the jump!

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Hi Ingrid and Welcome!

Floral waxes are formulated to be used in products like lotion, butters, and balms. I imagine they would work in NaOH bars as well, similar to using beeswax in your formula. If making liquid soap, you may have to find a way to "solubize" the wax, i.e., make it watery enough to disperse in the soap or it will end up separating out and floating on top.

HTH

 

[IngridK]

Hi Ingrid and Welcome! View attachment 31565
Floral waxes are formulated to be used in products like lotion, butters, and balms. I imagine they would work in NaOH bars as well, similar to using beeswax in your formula. If making liquid soap, you may have to find a way to "solubize" the wax, i.e., make it watery enough to disperse in the soap or it will end up separating out and floating on top.

HTH

Ah! I melted it into the oils before I added the lye/water mixture... Solubizing is easy... PEG 40 would do the trick. The only issue there is that PEG 40 has a SAP value and I haven't a clue as to how that would effect the blend. I was using glycerine I wonder if the wax would melt into the glycerine... I think you are right about dispersal the wax melts beautifully but the temps are not high enough for it to blend, even with a stick blender...

LOL I feel another test batch coming on...

 

[Misschief]

On that note; I cannot remember the 'official name' of the chemical where you can test for lye... anyone here have a cheerful supplier in Canada they could recommend. Right now I am just making for myself but as time goes by I will want to give my stuff away as gifts... would like to know all is good before the product leaves my hands.

That would be phenolphthalein you're looking for. I got mine from Voyageur Soap & Candle.

https://www.voyageursoapandcandle.com/search?q=phenolphthalein

 

[IngridK]

That would be phenolphthalein you're looking for. I got mine from Voyageur Soap & Candle.

https://www.voyageursoapandcandle.com/search?q=phenolphthalein

Timing is everything, I was eyeying their site recently because a local supplier had let me down a number of times. The presumption on my part is that you like working with them and perhaps it would be worth my while to place an order and have it shipped to the other side of Canada?

 

[Misschief]

Timing is everything, I was eyeying their site recently because a local supplier had let me down a number of times. The presumption on my part is that you like working with them and perhaps it would be worth my while to place an order and have it shipped to the other side of Canada?

Your presumption would be correct. I've been a Voyageur customer for almost 20 years; I wish they would open a shop here, where I live, instead of 4-5 hours from me (might be too dangerous for my bank account, though). When I did have a (minor) complaint, they were very helpful and even called me at work to discuss the issue.

I put in an order this morning and just received notification that it's already on its way. They're not always THAT quick but they're a lot quicker than other suppliers I've used.

 

[szaza]

Just a thought... In liquid soap you add the scent after saponification right? Would it be an option to use rose essential oil in stead of rose wax? I've used rose absolue in HP soap (I got a small dropler of very diluted rose absolue long before I started soaping and never used it, so decided to try it out). You need a rediculously small amount of rose oil to get the scent (like 1/10 of what you would normally use). The soap had a wonderful smell, though it faded after a year..
I'm thinking it might be more practical and maybe even more economical to use rose oil at the end of the process than adding a bunch of wax and have it go through saponification and heating and hope you have some of the smell left (with the risk of the wax doing funky things to your soap). Rose absolue is a lot cheaper than rose EO, but of course it's chemically extracted.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

I'm thinking it might be more practical and maybe even more economical to use rose oil at the end of the process than adding a bunch of wax and have it go through saponification and heating and hope you have some of the smell left (with the risk of the wax doing funky things to your soap).

You're thinking is spot on. However, if you're not opposed to using Fragrance Oils vs. Essential Oils, an FO would be less expensive compared to EO.

 

[IngridK]

I am not going for the scent... believe it or not... but the properties of the wax itself...

I find the hydrosol and wax component far more therapeutic than the oil for this flower... Personally I don't care for the scent of roses... but my icky skin loves what rose can do for it...

 

[jentlesoaps]

I just got some rose wax in from Bulgaria. Yes, it isn't a nice fragrance so it's not going in for the fragrant properties. I am using a counter top hot process and adding what I normally add in beeswax at the end of the cook while everything is still quite hot. Maybe you could try this as well?

 

[IngridK]

Funny, that, I love the scent of Bulgarian Rose Wax for boosting lotions. I just don't have a direct supplier for it... I must keep this in mind for a next batch when I experiment.

 

[IngridK]

The adventure continues... my batch has now cured for two weeks. It is pretty solid but I think a whiz with a blender will fix that. Will have to add preservative it is testing at a Ph of about neutral... I am a titch surprised by that.