Requesting help with formula, please.

[bumbleklutz]

Lately, I've been having some issues with my old reliable formula. In the past, my soaps were always ready to unmold and cut in 24 hours. The last four logs I have made have all been very soft after 24 hours. Here is my formula:

castor 27 g (5%)
cocoa butter 43 g (8%)
coconut oil 65 g (12%)
olive oil pomace 135 g (25%)
palm kernel oil 65 g (12%)
palm oil 108 g (20%)
shea butter 43 g (8%)
sunflower oil HO 54 g (10%)
H2O 203 g
NaOH 75 g (Approximately 27% lye solution to give me some play time. )

In addition I add 1.5 tsp sugar and 1.5 tsp sodium lactate 60% solution to my lye. Also I add 11 g of edta 39% solution to my oils. I soap at 90-100 degrees F. and place my molds on a heating pad set to high for about an hour after pouring and insulate well with towels to encourage gel.

The only new things I have done differently on these batches is master batching the oils, and using the edta. Also when master batching my oils I add 3 g ROE to 2700 g oil.

Any insight that you all could provide would be much appreciated.

 

[newbie]

I have not used EDTA but I wonder if with that, sugar and sodium lactate, you have too many solutes which is causing some softness. I have no idea but that thought popped into my head. Are you accounting for the water in the EDTA solution somewhere else in your recipe? It's possible it adds too much water on the whole, otherwise.

The only other thought is that perhaps in masterbatching, you forgot an oil or mis-measured. I don't know if you have any way to check that or not.

 

[Soapmaker145]

What is the pH of your EDTA solution? There are 2 different EDTA chemicals available. Depending on which one you used and if you didn't correct the pH, it could use up some of your NaOH and increase the superfat making for a softer soap longer.

 

[Seawolfe]

Is it significantly cooler in your house? During the winter I find I do need to put my mold on the heating pad to completely gel it or it stays soft longer.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

How old and/or clumpy is your lye? Also, are the temperatures at which you combine similar to how you did it previously?

 

[CTAnton]

Not only might your lye be old but perhaps one of your oils might have gone off...

 

[IrishLass]

I just typed your recipe into SoapCalc and I'm not really seeing any issues. The only thing that sticks out is that SoapCalc shows that your batch has a negative-3 superfat. Don't know if you meant to do that on purpose or not, but just thought it was worth a mention.

For what it's worth, I use EDTA (tetrasodium), sodium lactate and sugar in pretty much all my batches and have never had a problem with softness (as long as I use my usual 33% lye concentration and my soap gels). It may be as Newbie said- that your full water amount/27% lye concentration got diluted even more because of the extra water from the EDTA solution, but it's hard to say for sure because it could be any of the factors mentioned above, or maybe even a combo of them.

Is the 27% lye concentration the amount of water you use all the time, or did you just use it to give you more play time for this latest batch?


IrishLass

 

[bumbleklutz]

First off, thanks to everyone for chiming in to help with this issue.

To answer some of your questions, my oils are about a month old, and my lye is about six weeks old. It is not clumpy or hard; I don't think it has gone off, but humidity here can be an issue. I am soaping a little cooler than I usually do, but only by about 10-20 degrees F. I thought I would try to go a little cooler to see if it would increase the time I had to play with my batter before it went to the "pudding" stage, because I was doing a five color swirl.

IrishLass, I forgot to post the amount of sunflower oil in my recipe, I've corrected that now. It should work out to about a 5% superfat now. I usually use a 27% lye concentration, with the amount of hard oils in my recipe if I go much beyond 30% it just moves too fast for me to keep up with. 27% seems like a sweet spot for me as far as having enough time to work with the batter while not being so low that I risk separation.

One thing different that I did realize after posting was that the air conditioning was on (I live in Florida.) while I was soaping, and the vent was directed directly into the area where I put the soap "to bed". Since my return to soaping I haven't really had to use the AC, but we were also doing some baking that day and it really heated up the house. Is it possible the AC blowing in that area caused the soap to cool enough to be softer?

 

[Steve85569]

First off, thanks to everyone for chiming in to help with this issue.



One thing different that I did realize after posting was that the air conditioning was on (I live in Florida.) while I was soaping, and the vent was directed directly into the area where I put the soap "to bed". Since my return to soaping I haven't really had to use the AC, but we were also doing some baking that day and it really heated up the house. Is it possible the AC blowing in that area caused the soap to cool enough to be softer?

That would probably be the one thing that is different.:mrgreen:

If I talk to a friend long enough I will usually solve my problem.
Room temperature and humidity does make a difference.

 

[IrishLass]

Ditto what Steve said^^^. I bet it didn't retain enough heat to fully gel.


IrishLass

 

[Cuncimokus]

Hi everyone, I made a batch of soap, which is drying to the facial skin & i am wondering if the ratio of ingredients are not right..

My recipe is as follows:

100g coconut oil
375g olive oil
25 grapeseed oil
190g fresh goat milk
73.3g NaOH
1 teaspoon ghassoul clay
1 teaspoon bentonite clay
15 drops lavender ess. Oil

Should I calculate 6-7 % superfat so the contents change as 150g goat milk & 67.06g NaOH & the rest of the ingredients stay the same amount?

Looking forward to receiving your advice ☺

Thank you heaps!

 

[Arimara]

The coconut might be a little high for your face but if you like it, it's fine. I'd suggest high oleic canola of sunflower oil as opposed to the grapeseed oil. I've heard it can go rancid pretty quickly in or out of soap. I also suggest you run that recipe through a soap calculator. as it stands, soapcalc is telling me your superfat is around -1.

 

[Cuncimokus]

Hi Arimara,

Thank you so much for your reply! How much less coconut oil should i use in this recipe & how are the rest of the ingredients will change then? Sorry, im not very familiar with soapcalc yet, but i will learn it soon. Okay, I didnt know that grapeseed can go rancid so quick. I will definitely change it to sunflower oil.

 

[Millie]

I would ditch the clays too. For coconut oil, 0 - 10%. Olive oil up to 100%. Castor oil up to 5%. Shea butter up to 20% (although someone posted a nice face soap recipe with 50% shea, maybe Dixiedragon?) The lardinators might suggest lard, but I don't know how much for a face soap. Keep the superfat low unless you have very dry skin. Just some things to get you started until others chime in. Soapcalc is great, lots of people use soapee too. Good luck!

P.s. not everyone can use cp soap on the face because of the high ph.

 

[Cuncimokus]

Thank you Millie! I try to use no clays or just very minimal amount & maybe keep the superfat around 5-6. I have sensitive oily skin, but it might be the pH that causing this effect on my face. I will try to use a different recipe with superfat & different ingredients & see how my skin react.Thanks alot!

 

[Millie]

A long cure helps too! You could go even lower with the superfat, 2-3%. Let us know how it goes

 

[Arimara]

Replying back, since you're new, I'd suggest soappee.com since it is more user-friendly. Soapcalc can take some learning, though Lunaskye made a guide to help people out with it. I use it because it's quicker for me and it was the first soap calculator I learned to use.

I'm one of those who cannot use CP soaps too often unless the coconut oil (or whatever cleansing oil is used) is almost non-existent. I also cannot use lard soap on my face since I actually have an intolerance to pork (I can enjoy a lard soap on my body).

Millie gave some great advice too so keep what she said in mind while you soap.

 

[Cuncimokus]

Yes Millie I believe a longer curing time helps aswell! I always cure the soaps for 6 weeks but will try it maybe 8 weeks next time. ☺

 

[Cuncimokus]

I will definitely try out soapee first & see how I go.. then try the soapcalc later when Im more experienced ☺ thank you for your kindness replying back to me again, it really helps me learn more & more. Yes, I will keep Millie's advice in mind. Do you have a ready to go recipe for the face since you have the same problem with coconut(i assume)? ☺ thank you Arimara in advance!

 

[shunt2011]

There's a great recipe on here for a shampoo bar by Lindy I believe though I wouldn't recommend it for shampoo it's a lovely face soap. I can't search it from my iPad but will try to locate it on my computer tomorrow and post it.