Replicating Body Wash Formula - Looking for Recipe Suggestions

[fizzin_A]

Hello soap makers! Brand new member here and thanks for having me here on the forum. I am not a scientist or soap maker, but I am looking to make a body wash that performs similarly to Bath and Body Works, only I want to use specific fragrance oils from a different supplier. I would like the base to perform similarly because I love the feel and lather I get out of B&BW body wash. Seriously suds for days! I realize I will likely not be able to make a perfect match, but would like to use it as a baseline to find a suitable recipe.

Since I am new to this and have zero experience, I'd love to just source a similar base, mix the FO with an emulsifier, mix it with the base, add some color, and call it a day, but I realize that may not be feasible for this specific use case.

I am turning to the experts here to point me in the direction of a recipe that can give me similar results; vitamin E, Shea butter, and aloe being key ingredients. Below are the ingredients listed on my B&BW bottle I have just to give an idea of what I am after. Thanks in advance for any input on this topic and I look forward to your responses.

Ingredients:
Water, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Tea Lauryl Sulfate, lauramidopropyl betaine, oleth-10, Fragrance, sodium laureth sulfate, lauramide mea, dipropylene glycol, Polysorbate 20, sodium pca, Citric Acid, peg-150 pentaerythrityl tetrastearate, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, triethanolamine, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, peg-6 caprylic/capric glycerides, peg-40 castor oil, propylene glycol, polyquaternium 7, triethylene glycol, tetrasodium edta, benzyl alcohol, tocopheryl acetate (vitamine E), butyrospermum parkii (shea) butter, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, BHT, ppg-26-buteth-26, peg-40 hydrogenated castor oil, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate, ppg-12-buteth-16, methoxybenzaldehyde, ethylhexyl salicylate, linalool, limonene,
coumarin, benzyl salicylate, alpha-isomethyl ionone, ext violet 2, yellow 5, red 40, blue 1

 

[amd]

Making syndet body washes can be a bit tricky. I recommend purchasing a pre-made base from a supplier and adding the fragrance. For example, here's the body wash bases available at WSP: Body Wash - Wholesale Supplies Plus
The Crystal Clear looks promising as a close match for the BBW - at least as far as surfactants go. The BBW seems to have some extras in it that I'm not entirely sure what they are. They may just be the individual components of the preservative and emulsifiers. I wouldn't focus too much on getting an exact match.

 

[lsg]

Humblebeeandme.com has recipes for several body washes

https://www.humblebeeandme.com/homemade-skin-care-recipes/how-to-make-hand-body-washes/

 

[fizzin_A]

Making syndet body washes can be a bit tricky. I recommend purchasing a pre-made base from a supplier and adding the fragrance. For example, here's the body wash bases available at WSP: Body Wash - Wholesale Supplies Plus
The Crystal Clear looks promising as a close match for the BBW - at least as far as surfactants go. The BBW seems to have some extras in it that I'm not entirely sure what they are. They may just be the individual components of the preservative and emulsifiers. I wouldn't focus too much on getting an exact match.

Thank you. I had stumbled on the Crafter's Choice bases earlier in my research and didn't even think to compare the ingredients to the BBW. It does look similar enough to possibly be a substitute. I think my biggest challenges are going to be figuring out the right amount of additives to add to the base and determining where they should be listed on the ingredients list.

I noticed a lot of the ingredients in the BBW towards the bottom of the list have to do with UV protection so may not be necessary for my application, though I also noticed fragrance is high up on the list so I'm wondering if they play any role in helping with viscosity.

Humblebeeandme.com has recipes for several body washes

https://www.humblebeeandme.com/homemade-skin-care-recipes/how-to-make-hand-body-washes/

Thanks, they have some interesting recipes. I'll take a look around and see what might be useful there.

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

Hello & Welcome

 

[amd]

I think my biggest challenges are going to be figuring out the right amount of additives to add to the base and determining where they should be listed on the ingredients list.

Are you planning on selling? If not, why worry about the ingredient list?

 

[fizzin_A]

Are you planning on selling? If not, why worry about the ingredient list?

Yes, the goal is to be able to sell the product eventually. Once I get the formula to my liking, I'll form an LLC and go through the appropriate steps to be licensed to sell.

 

[Quanta]

Hello soap makers! Brand new member here and thanks for having me here on the forum. I am not a scientist or soap maker, but I am looking to make a body wash that performs similarly to Bath and Body Works, only I want to use specific fragrance oils from a different supplier. I would like the base to perform similarly because I love the feel and lather I get out of B&BW body wash. Seriously suds for days! I realize I will likely not be able to make a perfect match, but would like to use it as a baseline to find a suitable recipe.

Since I am new to this and have zero experience, I'd love to just source a similar base, mix the FO with an emulsifier, mix it with the base, add some color, and call it a day, but I realize that may not be feasible for this specific use case.

I am turning to the experts here to point me in the direction of a recipe that can give me similar results; vitamin E, Shea butter, and aloe being key ingredients. Below are the ingredients listed on my B&BW bottle I have just to give an idea of what I am after. Thanks in advance for any input on this topic and I look forward to your responses.

Ingredients:
Water, Sodium Lauryl Sulfate, Tea Lauryl Sulfate, lauramidopropyl betaine, oleth-10, Fragrance, sodium laureth sulfate, lauramide mea, dipropylene glycol, Polysorbate 20, sodium pca, Citric Acid, peg-150 pentaerythrityl tetrastearate, aloe barbadensis leaf juice, triethanolamine, hydroxypropyl methylcellulose, peg-6 caprylic/capric glycerides, peg-40 castor oil, propylene glycol, polyquaternium 7, triethylene glycol, tetrasodium edta, benzyl alcohol, tocopheryl acetate (vitamine E), butyrospermum parkii (shea) butter, methylchloroisothiazolinone, methylisothiazolinone, BHT, ppg-26-buteth-26, peg-40 hydrogenated castor oil, ethylhexyl methoxycinnamate, ppg-12-buteth-16, methoxybenzaldehyde, ethylhexyl salicylate, linalool, limonene,
coumarin, benzyl salicylate, alpha-isomethyl ionone, ext violet 2, yellow 5, red 40, blue 1

Vitamin E, Shea butter, and Aloe are not the ingredients responsible for the way this body wash feels. You can add them to your base for "label appeal", that is, you know and I know that it's really the polyquaternium-7 (among other things) that is making your skin feel nice after washing, but customers have been trained well by marketers to recognize certain words on labels that make them think "this product is worth purchasing because it will make my skin feel moisturized". When you add ingredients for label appeal, you are signaling to the customer what they should expect from the product. It has already been formulated to deliver that expectation without those ingredients, with a miniscule amount of the ingredient(s) they think is/are doing the moisturizing added in.

The nice thing is, what this means is you can start with any base that already has the feel you want, and add whatever else you want (within reason) for label appeal, including shea butter. You will be adding such tiny amounts that it shouldn't have an effect on how the body wash functions. Most pre-made bases are not only a blend of surfactants, but also have the ingredients that actually make it feel nice, plus a preservative. The vendor will tell you how much extra stuff you can add (typically 5% or so) so make sure you stay below that amount or you will dilute the preservative too much. So you would add 1% fragrance, and less than 1% of each of your label appeal ingredients. Make sure you keep each one quite low because the oil soluble ones in larger amounts might need additional solubilizer depending on your base, and you don't have enough wiggle room for more additional ingredients. Keep the aloe quite low because it has electrolytes in it that will make the base runny and thin if it is the kind thickened with electrolytes/salt (too much will cause the body wash to become thin again, look up "salt curve"). For that reason, you can't use powdered aloe vera unless you reconstitute it first. The powder is either 100x or 200x, which means one gram of powder will make 100 or 200 grams of juice which means that adding one gram of powder to your base is the equivalent of adding that many hundreds of grams of juice. That would definitely make the base runny. The B&BW formula you listed is the kind thickened with salt (sodium lauryl sulfate is the primary surfactant), but I don't see sodium chloride listed. I suspect they are using the electrolytes in the aloe to thicken it, which is why it's so high up on the list of ingredients.

What I suggest you do, is order a small amount of each base you like the sound of, and try them out. Add different amounts of each additive until you figure out how much your base will tolerate.

Thank you. I had stumbled on the Crafter's Choice bases earlier in my research and didn't even think to compare the ingredients to the BBW. It does look similar enough to possibly be a substitute. I think my biggest challenges are going to be figuring out the right amount of additives to add to the base and determining where they should be listed on the ingredients list.

If you get Crafter's Choice bases from Wholesale Supplies Plus, all you need to do is email them which base you used and how much of each addititive you used, and they will calculate it for you and email you a list of ingredients. The base formulas are proprietary, so they can't give you the percentages of the base ingredients for you to figure it out yourself. Although, they do usually have on the product information page for most of their bases something like "If you add 1% fragrance, you will list it between these two ingredients on your label". But if you add other things too, you will need them to calculate the order of ingredients.

I noticed a lot of the ingredients in the BBW towards the bottom of the list have to do with UV protection so may not be necessary for my application, though I also noticed fragrance is high up on the list so I'm wondering if they play any role in helping with viscosity.

Many ingredients have multiple functions, so they may not be using those ingredients for UV protection but for something else. However I suspect the UV protector is to prevent the colors fading under flourescent lighting in the stores.
And actually, fragrance is not high up on this list. This particular formula just has a lot of ingredients that are added at less than 1% each (possibly 2%), so it only looks like fragrance is high. Most of the ingredients at the end are fragrance components. Almost everything listed after ppg-12-buteth-16 is a fragrance component, in very small amounts. Also keep in mind that it is possible for the word "fragrance" to include other things so it might even be at the 3% spot on the list, but still only contain 1% actual fragrance overall.

 

[fizzin_A]

Vitamin E, Shea butter, and Aloe are not the ingredients responsible for the way this body wash feels. You can add them to your base for "label appeal", that is, you know and I know that it's really the polyquaternium-7 (among other things) that is making your skin feel nice after washing

Wow, first of all, I want to thank you for taking the time to reply in such great detail. It is extremely helpful to me as I go on this journey with no background. Your insights here are greatly appreciated!

The vendor will tell you how much extra stuff you can add (typically 5% or so) so make sure you stay below that amount or you will dilute the preservative too much. So you would add 1% fragrance, and less than 1% of each of your label appeal ingredients. Make sure you keep each one quite low because the oil soluble ones in larger amounts might need additional solubilizer depending on your base, and you don't have enough wiggle room for more additional ingredients. Keep the aloe quite low because it has electrolytes in it that will make the base runny and thin if it is the kind thickened with electrolytes/salt (too much will cause the body wash to become thin again, look up "salt curve").

I've been reading through different recipes, Q&A's, and reviews on WSP regarding the Crafter's Choice Crystal Clear Shower Gel base and noticed they recommend staying under 5% additives for this very reason. It is sounding like if I just add FO to the base, I should be ok with just the EO/FO modifier, but if I add other "label appeal" additives, I may want to use Polysorbate 20 instead? I think I also read that Vitamin E doesn't require additional preservatives so as long as I remain under 5% with the others, I should be ok from that aspect. I was also entertaining the Silk Amino Acids to make it a 2-in-1 body wash/shampoo, but I'm concerned it might introduce cloudiness and the additive is a little expensive. For any potential viscosity issues, it looks like the WSP recommendation is adding Bubble Wash Thickener so I'll probably want to order some of that too.

What I suggest you do, is order a small amount of each base you like the sound of, and try them out. Add different amounts of each additive until you figure out how much your base will tolerate.

Solid plan and this is what I intend to do, though I am getting the feeling the Crafter's Choice is going to be the way to go based off of the reviews and support available for their products. Hopefully my order gets processed and shipped soon! Saveonscents also has a suspension base that peaked my interest as well and they'll even blend the FO of my choice into the formula for me, though it seems to come at a price premium. I ordered some anyway just so I can compare the performance of the formula.

If you get Crafter's Choice bases from Wholesale Supplies Plus, all you need to do is email them which base you used and how much of each addititive you used, and they will calculate it for you and email you a list of ingredients. The base formulas are proprietary, so they can't give you the percentages of the base ingredients for you to figure it out yourself. Although, they do usually have on the product information page for most of their bases something like "If you add 1% fragrance, you will list it between these two ingredients on your label". But if you add other things too, you will need them to calculate the order of ingredients.

I had no idea I could email them and they would provide the ingredients list, but this is awesome and definitely solves that problem. Thank you for letting me know about this!

And actually, fragrance is not high up on this list. This particular formula just has a lot of ingredients that are added at less than 1% each (possibly 2%), so it only looks like fragrance is high. Most of the ingredients at the end are fragrance components. Almost everything listed after ppg-12-buteth-16 is a fragrance component, in very small amounts. Also keep in mind that it is possible for the word "fragrance" to include other things so it might even be at the 3% spot on the list, but still only contain 1% actual fragrance overall.

I wondered about that too. I noticed in the case of the Crafter's Choice EO/FO modifier, its ingredients are simply listed as fragrance as well. SOS claims to be adding 3-6% to their FO blended base and I'm now wondering how much of that is just cut/solubilizer vs actual FO.

 

[Quanta]

Wow, first of all, I want to thank you for taking the time to reply in such great detail. It is extremely helpful to me as I go on this journey with no background. Your insights here are greatly appreciated!

You are welcome!

I've been reading through different recipes, Q&A's, and reviews on WSP regarding the Crafter's Choice Crystal Clear Shower Gel base and noticed they recommend staying under 5% additives for this very reason. It is sounding like if I just add FO to the base, I should be ok with just the EO/FO modifier, but if I add other "label appeal" additives, I may want to use Polysorbate 20 instead?

Well, sometimes. It depends on the oil. Some things are OK to add to a surfactand blend in small amounts without an additional solubilizer, but some oils need Polysorbate 20, and others need Polysorbate 80. The exact composition of FOs can vary greatly and some of them will cloud the base, some won't, some will blend in fine (depending on the surfactants the base is made of - some double as solubilizers) and others won't blend in without an additional solubilizer (either Polysorbate 20, or the FO/EO modifier from WSP). You will have to test each combination to see what happens. If your FO doesn't blend in without a solubilizer, you can try polysorbate 20 or the FO/EO modifier. I would try the polysorbate 20 first, just because it will require less of that than the FO/EO modifier and you won't use up most of your 5% just trying to get the FO to blend in and have no room left for the shea butter.

Here is what I would start with. To your base, add:
2% that is a blend of half FO, half Polysorbate 20
0.5% that is a blend of half Shea butter, and half Polysorbate 80
0.1% or 0.2% Aloe Vera juice
0.2% Vitamin E (acetate form)
That is a total of about 2.9%. You will have some wiggle room in case you need to use the FO/EO modifier instead of Polysorbate 20.
If you add a lot of butter or oil to a surfactant blend, you risk lowering your amount of lather. So if it were me, I would not add any more Shea butter than this. It ends up being about a quarter of one percent, which is probably the same amount as what's in the B&BW formula (if I'm reading their LOI correctly). Think of washing greasy dishes with dish detergent. How much does it lather? Not as much as clean water with detergent, right? When the surfactants are bound up with a lot of oils, instead of free in the water, they can't foam up as much. Also keep in mind that this blend will probably not be clear, but rather cloudy. If that bothers you, try one that is already translucent or opaque.

I recommend getting some test tubes with caps so you can mix up a small batch and let it sit upright in a stand for a week or so, because the tall skinny shape of the test tube will let you see separation much more easily, if it occurs.

I think I also read that Vitamin E doesn't require additional preservatives so as long as I remain under 5% with the others, I should be ok from that aspect. I was also entertaining the Silk Amino Acids to make it a 2-in-1 body wash/shampoo, but I'm concerned it might introduce cloudiness and the additive is a little expensive.

Silk amino acids only work in conditioner. Putting proteins in shampoo is more marketing to get people to buy the more exotic products. Surfactants are meant to remove things from hair, so it is difficult to get things to adsorb to the hair strands in the presence of surfactants. If you want to use proteins, you will need to make a leave-in conditioner. Another consideration is the pH. I looked at the SDS for the Crystal Clear Shower Gel and the Pearl Body Wash, and they both have a pH that is quite a bit too high for hair. They are both 6 or above, and shampoo needs to be around 4.5 or 5. It is close enough that you might be able to add a citric acid solution to get it lower, but I do remember seeing in the Q&A for one of them someone asking about lowering the pH, and the WSP employee who answered the question recommended not trying to adjust it (I suspect it will affect viscosity). If you wanted to make a shampoo, you will probably want to start with a base that is only a blend of surfactants (like Iselux Ultra Mild) without all the other stuff, and then add what you want, with the citric acid, your preservative, and thickener. This way you can control the pH much more easily. The nice thing about Iselux Ultra Mild is the viscosity is adjusted by adjusting the pH - lower the pH, and it gets thicker. Or better yet, make shampoo bars instead.

I did find this on the WSP site: Clear Conditioning Shampoo

That is a shampoo base that might be closer to what you're looking for as a body wash, but the pH is 6.5 which is still quite high for a shampoo, unfortunately. An industry secret is that, frequently the only difference between shampoo and body wash is the label. They are very similar formulations. Typically shampoo can be used as body wash, but sometimes body wash can't be used as shampoo (if the pH is too high). Other than the pH they are basically the same thing. This one looks to me, based on the pH, to be a nice body wash but not so nice as shampoo.

For any potential viscosity issues, it looks like the WSP recommendation is adding Bubble Wash Thickener so I'll probably want to order some of that too.

The ingredients of that product are present in the B&BW ingredient list you posted. So it is likely B&BW is using those same ingredients for viscosity control. Keep in mind you still have to stay below 5% total additives. And, don't try to adjust the viscosity until you've let it sit for at least a few days after you get your additives blended in. Sometimes it gets thicker as it sits.

Solid plan and this is what I intend to do, though I am getting the feeling the Crafter's Choice is going to be the way to go based off of the reviews and support available for their products. Hopefully my order gets processed and shipped soon! Saveonscents also has a suspension base that peaked my interest as well and they'll even blend the FO of my choice into the formula for me, though it seems to come at a price premium. I ordered some anyway just so I can compare the performance of the formula.

Good idea. I have never ordered from SaveOnScents so I'm unfamiliar with their products. I am pretty familiar with Wholesale Supplies Plus though, and I can tell you that "ship soon" is not a concept they are familiar with, sorry.

I had no idea I could email them and they would provide the ingredients list, but this is awesome and definitely solves that problem. Thank you for letting me know about this!

I have seen WSP mention it in the Q&A sections. You can probably email it to their customer service email address, although if they take care of that at the same speed they ship things... I've never had to have them calculate it for me because I have only ever bought one base from them, a long time ago, and I didn't sell it. I don't normally use pre-made bases for anything these days so I don't have personal experience with this service. I am merely aware of its existence.

I wondered about that too. I noticed in the case of the Crafter's Choice EO/FO modifier, its ingredients are simply listed as fragrance as well. SOS claims to be adding 3-6% to their FO blended base and I'm now wondering how much of that is just cut/solubilizer vs actual FO.

There are actually quite a few things that can get lumped in with "fragrance". 6% fragrance in a body wash is actually really high, so I am pretty certain most of that 6% is a solubilizer of some kind. More like 1% or possibly 2% is actually fragrance.

 

[fizzin_A]

Solid advice as always and I definitely appreciate the feedback...

Some things are OK to add to a surfactand blend in small amounts without an additional solubilizer, but some oils need Polysorbate 20, and others need Polysorbate 80. The exact composition of FOs can vary greatly and some of them will cloud the base, some won't, some will blend in fine (depending on the surfactants the base is made of - some double as solubilizers) and others won't blend in without an additional solubilizer (either Polysorbate 20, or the FO/EO modifier from WSP).

Well, I was impatient this weekend waiting for my WSP order, so I decided to pick up some Soap Expressions shower gel base from a store locally just to play around with. A few lessons learned; obviously I went a little heavy on the coloring and will need to take it easy there, this soap base was very cheap and does not seem to lather well enough for a body wash (and that's ok, I didn't plan on using it anyway beyond the experiment), and the FO I used blended perfectly without adding any solubilizers. I used 1% FO and that does appear to have thickened the base beyond my liking so hopefully, when I get the Crafter's Choice base, it will also blend well and my additives will help counteract thickening if it occurs in that base as well.

Here is what I would start with. To your base, add:
2% that is a blend of half FO, half Polysorbate 20
0.5% that is a blend of half Shea butter, and half Polysorbate 80
0.1% or 0.2% Aloe Vera juice
0.2% Vitamin E (acetate form)
That is a total of about 2.9%. You will have some wiggle room in case you need to use the FO/EO modifier instead of Polysorbate 20.

This sounds like a good starting point, but may withhold the Polysorbate 20 if the FO blends well. I also have a few FO's of the same scent from different suppliers and at different concentrations so my results may vary as I experiment with those as well.

Another thing I noticed in the WSP Q&A's, is WSP recommends using Shae 50 with this base as it is already water soluble. Any experience working with Shea 50 or any reason do avoid it that you can think of?

Also keep in mind that this blend will probably not be clear, but rather cloudy. If that bothers you, try one that is already translucent or opaque.

My preference would be for the end result to be clear just like the B&BW gel is. I'd prefer the clarity over the label appeal ingredients if it really comes down to it.

That is a shampoo base that might be closer to what you're looking for as a body wash, but the pH is 6.5 which is still quite high for a shampoo, unfortunately. An industry secret is that, frequently the only difference between shampoo and body wash is the label. They are very similar formulations. Typically shampoo can be used as body wash, but sometimes body wash can't be used as shampoo (if the pH is too high). Other than the pH they are basically the same thing. This one looks to me, based on the pH, to be a nice body wash but not so nice as shampoo.

The B&BW gel is labeled as a 2-in-1 shower gel and body wash, though I haven't gone as far as to test the pH yet to even see what it's at. I'll probably hold off on trying to make it a shampoo and stick with labeling it as just body wash.

There are actually quite a few things that can get lumped in with "fragrance". 6% fragrance in a body wash is actually really high, so I am pretty certain most of that 6% is a solubilizer of some kind. More like 1% or possibly 2% is actually fragrance.

I imagine some of the FO's I have are already blended with some form of cut or solubilizer which would explain the FO blending well in my experiment. Though I know with the SOS FO's, I had the option of three different concentration levels and I ordered the most concentrated version so that one may react differently than the FO from Madina that I used in my experiment. And the FO from AFI that I'm still waiting on might react different too so it sounds like I have quite a bit of experimenting ahead.

 

[Quanta]

Well, I was impatient this weekend waiting for my WSP order, so I decided to pick up some Soap Expressions shower gel base from a store locally just to play around with. A few lessons learned; obviously I went a little heavy on the coloring and will need to take it easy there, this soap base was very cheap and does not seem to lather well enough for a body wash (and that's ok, I didn't plan on using it anyway beyond the experiment), and the FO I used blended perfectly without adding any solubilizers. I used 1% FO and that does appear to have thickened the base beyond my liking so hopefully, when I get the Crafter's Choice base, it will also blend well and my additives will help counteract thickening if it occurs in that base as well.

Some FOs will blend just fine without a solubilizer, but others will need one. It could be there is already a solubilizer in your base, which is likely if you got it from Hobby Lobby (more on this at the end of this post). Also, some FOs will thicken the base, and others will thin that same base. Some FOs may thicken one base and not another. Some FOs will need a solubilizer in one base and not another. You'll need to make test batches for each base+FO combination you want to make because it's hard to predict what will happen, due to the ingredients of the fragrance being a protected trade secret.

This sounds like a good starting point, but may withhold the Polysorbate 20 if the FO blends well. I also have a few FO's of the same scent from different suppliers and at different concentrations so my results may vary as I experiment with those as well.

When you experiment, make sure you leave it sitting long enough to make sure it doesn't separate. Sometimes they look like they mixed well, but then days later you have stuff either floating on top or sunk to the bottom. Then you can determine whether you need Polysorbate 20 or not. It may be that you don't need it, but always leave it sitting out to make absolutely sure.

Another thing I noticed in the WSP Q&A's, is WSP recommends using Shae 50 with this base as it is already water soluble. Any experience working with Shea 50 or any reason do avoid it that you can think of?

It is technically an ethoxylated surfactant, which, in large amounts will deactivate certain types of preservatives. You'll only be adding it in very small amounts, but according to the manufacturer of the preservatives, what they mean by "large amounts" is still really a relatively small amount. I would research the preservatives in whatever base you decide to use and make sure it's ok to use ethoxylated surfactants with them. Also, keep in mind that the staff at WSP who answer those questions don't always know what they're talking about when it comes to the more technical aspects of the chemistry behind the product (I have seen them give bad advice before) so always ALWAYS test first in a small batch to make sure it's going to work ("test it to make sure" is advice I've seen them give that's always a good idea). I have never used Shea 50 so I can't speak from personal experience, so I don't really know what it will do for skin feel in your product.

My preference would be for the end result to be clear just like the B&BW gel is. I'd prefer the clarity over the label appeal ingredients if it really comes down to it.

It may be more tricky to formulate it to be totally clear. Also, to me, I always associate the more opaque or translucent, pearly body washes with "moisturizing", but that is most likely more of that "consumers trained by marketers" I spoke of before.

I'm not saying it's not possible for it to be both clear and have a moisturizing feel, by "tricky" I just mean that sometimes you can't get your heart set on a particular fragrance because it will never blend in without being cloudy. In that case you move on to a different fragrance. The nice thing is, most of the time when you find a fragrance from one vendor that doesn't work, you can find something similar enough from somewhere else that works just fine. It just means you have more testing and experimenting to do to keep it clear. You also might find that adding a smaller amount of shea butter or using a different solubilizer will keep it clear.

The B&BW gel is labeled as a 2-in-1 shower gel and body wash, though I haven't gone as far as to test the pH yet to even see what it's at. I'll probably hold off on trying to make it a shampoo and stick with labeling it as just body wash.

If you do decide to get into making shampoo, I highly recommend you invest in a good quality pH meter. I use one from Apera, they seem to be a good brand that won't cost an arm and a leg. Don't rely on paper pH strips, unless you get the plastic sticks that have at least four colored squares on the end.

I imagine some of the FO's I have are already blended with some form of cut or solubilizer which would explain the FO blending well in my experiment. Though I know with the SOS FO's, I had the option of three different concentration levels and I ordered the most concentrated version so that one may react differently than the FO from Madina that I used in my experiment. And the FO from AFI that I'm still waiting on might react different too so it sounds like I have quite a bit of experimenting ahead.

I do know that WSP has one or two pre-solubilized FOs, but otherwise it's not common (that I know of) because it can interfere with certain applications (anhydrous products, candles, etc.). The FO's SOS sells that are lower concentrations, are most likely cut with soybean oil or similar and not a solubilizer.

I am leaning toward your base having something in it that acts as a solubilizer. I didn't look too closely at the ingredients but it could be one of the surfactants they used. If you got it from Hobby Lobby, this is quite likely. When it comes to soap and lotion making, Hobby Lobby caters to people who want to do things the easiest way possible, and to those who may not really know what they're doing. If the base were to have instructions that say you have to add this other thing to your FO before adding it to the base, that's too complicated for some people and that's a lost customer - particularly because people would be tempted to skip that step, or use something they think is similar to a solubilizer, but isn't. From a business perspective it makes sense for them to make a product that is very simple to use and as uncomplicated as possible. If you had to add a solubilizer to the FO first and people skipped that step, that's a negative review on the website and potential lost sales. It is in the company's best interest to increase the chance of success with the product. On the other hand, when you get bases from a company that specializes in providing ingredients and bases to people who know a little more about formulating, they can rely a little more on customers knowing what they're doing, and they can explain to people that you have to add a solubilizer and the customer knows what that means. That would be you. Those products are going to be higher quality and more customizeable than anything at Hobby Lobby.

And yes, "quite a bit of experimenting" is an understatement. But the experimentation is the best part.

 

[fizzin_A]

Ok so I figured I would try mixing just the FO's I had to the CC base and here are the results at ~1% FO after sitting a few days. I say ~1% because apparently the lowest unit of measure on my scale is 1g and it struggles to accurately measure in lower increments. So this was my attempt at 99g CC base and 1g FO. I'm leaning towards my scale being off since 1g FO resulted in a very weak scent that I could barely make out over the scent of the base.

After letting that sit for a few days with no separation, I decided to add another ~1g of FO to each bottle and they have been sitting for a couple days. The green sample on the left obviously turned cloudy and thinned quite a bit, but that's ok, it was my least favorite FO in terms of scent. At least now I have an idea of how the FO's react with the base without any solubilizer. I can no longer smell the soapiness of the base with the additional FO. I will let these sit longer and continue to monitor, but it does not appear to have thinned the base terribly bad on the other two, though I would prefer they be a tad thicker. Also I may have used a bit of the yellow one so that's why the level is lower.

Some FOs will blend just fine without a solubilizer, but others will need one. It could be there is already a solubilizer in your base, which is likely if you got it from Hobby Lobby (more on this at the end of this post). Also, some FOs will thicken the base, and others will thin that same base. Some FOs may thicken one base and not another. Some FOs will need a solubilizer in one base and not another. You'll need to make test batches for each base+FO combination you want to make because it's hard to predict what will happen, due to the ingredients of the fragrance being a protected trade secret.

Yes, the first base I used was from Hobby Lobby and it makes sense they would want to fool proof their base for the reasons you described.

When you experiment, make sure you leave it sitting long enough to make sure it doesn't separate. Sometimes they look like they mixed well, but then days later you have stuff either floating on top or sunk to the bottom. Then you can determine whether you need Polysorbate 20 or not. It may be that you don't need it, but always leave it sitting out to make absolutely sure.

I will continue to monitor and keep an eye out for separation. I am hoping I do not need the Polysorbate 20 for the FO I use since that will free up some space to remain under 5% additives especially if I need to use 2% FO, though I'm leaning towards my scale not being accurate with lower measurements.

It may be more tricky to formulate it to be totally clear. Also, to me, I always associate the more opaque or translucent, pearly body washes with "moisturizing", but that is most likely more of that "consumers trained by marketers" I spoke of before.

Could be, I might want to ask around for people in my target market to see if they have a preference one way or another. This would be a body wash for men so it would be good to understand. To me, I associate cloudy body washes with the cheap commercial body washes found at the store that never seem to lather enough to make it through an entire shower and I tend to associate clear body wash to being more "pure" with a rich creamy lather like the B&BW.

If you do decide to get into making shampoo, I highly recommend you invest in a good quality pH meter. I use one from Apera, they seem to be a good brand that won't cost an arm and a leg. Don't rely on paper pH strips, unless you get the plastic sticks that have at least four colored squares on the end.

Appreciate the advice as always and will look into it. Any recommendations on a scale that can accurately measure grams by the decimal?

 

[Quanta]

Any recommendations on a scale that can accurately measure grams by the decimal?

I was going to give you a link to the one I got on Amazon, but it's not available anymore. There are a lot of other scales on Amazon, look for one that measures in .01g increments. Mine is USB powered, and it has a setting where it never automatically powers off after inactivity. That's an important feature for me. My previous scale was battery only and I couldn't turn off the auto-off feature, plus it only measured to .1g. Also keep in mind that while most of them can be calibrated, only some of them come with the weight to do it. LotionCrafter sells the weights if you pick a scale that doesn't come with one.

Whatever scale you look at, read the reviews. There are some out there that are garbage, and some of the less expensive ones are actually pretty good. Some of the cheaper ones will measure to two decimal places, but the increment is actually .02 or so. Or it's only accurate to .05 or whatever. So read the description carefully. I know mine is not exactly accurate, but it is close enough. When I use my test tracker spreadsheet for scaling test batches, it often rounds amounts to two decimal places so it's handy to be able to measure that amount without having to adjust the recipe.