When I was in a shop that sells natura siberica yesterday, the lady actually directed me towards a different brand called "WAAM". According to her, it's even more natural and should allow my hair to stay nice longer without washing. They only carry one shampoo base, that you can customize yourself with scent/color/active ingredients (same for the conditioner/hair mask base). I washed with the shampoo and conditioner yesterday and my hair is clean and shiny and easy to brush, but I miss the "texture" form lye soap.. I have very straight hair and like every girl with straight hair, I prefer to have some waves. With lye soap (as well as with clay) my hair would easily keep a wave from a bun or braid, but today it's very straight again (even after drying in a braid and beeing kept in a bun all day)... It does seem to have more volume than it used to have with 'regular' shampoo, so that's already a plus! Does anybody have a suggestion for additives that would bring back the wave-keeping ability to my hair?
Rehab the hair (or how to get away from lye based shampoo)?
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dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
I am wondering if the greater volume of your hair is a side affect of the pH causing hair damage.
http://hairmomentum.com/effects-of-ph-hair/
High pH products make your hair cuticles lift, which weakens the hair.
http://hairmomentum.com/effects-of-ph-hair/
High pH products make your hair cuticles lift, which weakens the hair.
That's a great website @dixiedragon ! I already got carried away and read several articles on the site before I remembered to answer..
The extra volume was indeed probably caused by damage due to high pH, but my hair was also easier to style (with regular products, my hair would be dull and straight within 2omin after styling, no matter what i did). Could that also be because of the pH and the hair cuticle lifting? Maybe the lifted cuticle provided more 'grip' to prevent the hair fibres from sliding back to their natural superstraight position? (just theorizing)
If that would be the case, would there be a possibility to get the same stylability without damaging the hair? I'm not ready to accept mij lifeless thin, straight hair just yet..
The extra volume was indeed probably caused by damage due to high pH, but my hair was also easier to style (with regular products, my hair would be dull and straight within 2omin after styling, no matter what i did). Could that also be because of the pH and the hair cuticle lifting? Maybe the lifted cuticle provided more 'grip' to prevent the hair fibres from sliding back to their natural superstraight position? (just theorizing)
If that would be the case, would there be a possibility to get the same stylability without damaging the hair? I'm not ready to accept mij lifeless thin, straight hair just yet..
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
That's my guess but I honestly don't know. My hair is super straight and fine and also pretty much un-stylable. Won't hold a curl, takes a bunch of bobby pins to stay in because they want to slide out. I just try to appreciate the fact that my hair is thick, soft and pretty even if it won't hold curl, lol.
Jenn Lee
Active Member
Hmm.. I'm sure I answered yesterday!
Thank you all for your suggestions! I really appreciate it, so many new ideas
Obsidian, thanks for clarifying before I bought the baby shampoo.. I was so hoping that would be the perfect, cheap and simple solution, but it was too good to be true. The brand you suggested can be shipped from the US to Europe, but shipping costs are about the same as the product price (or more). So far none of the EU/UK sellers I found carries the shampoo. But I'll keep looking
amd, co-washing is definately worth the try! I think I'm going to look for a shampoo/conditioner system that I like and then see how my hair does with conditioner only. I have very thin, straight hair, so co-wash only could weigh it down, but the system you describe of alternating shampoo and co-wash might work!
dixiedragon, thanks for your input! You're right about Indian hair and I just remembered my mom has an Indian friend who used to have very beautiful long hair (it's still beautiful, just a little shorter now) I sent her an email to ask about her hair care routine. If anyone is interested I can post her reply when she answers.
Cellador, I'm going to try to see if I can find those 3 ingredients.. I've read a bit about it online and it does sound like a lot of work, so I understand why you stopped using it.. do you think it would be possible to make a lot at once and freeze it in icecubes, so when you want to take a shower you just melt some icecubes and you're ready to go?
Hello again! I feel like we may be twins! I also have waist-length hair (that I just got trimmed, phew!). I have very oily skin and before I started the co-wash, I had to wash my hair daily or it was just gross. I love the co-wash, it's the best thing I've ever done hygiene-wise other than start using Apple Cider Vinegar instead of other types of deodorants. I am currently using the seemingly expensive (kinda, I was using a lot more salon products that added up to the same amount without any of the benefits) New Wash, a co-wash by the Bumble&Bumble person. It's amazing, truly. I can now go 3 days without washing my hair and it doesn't look like I'm a vagrant. It feels softer, is shinier, and my scalp is a lot healthier. So I probably spend around $20-25 a month on hair products. Not too bad, bit pricey.
I do wash with a shampoo bar every once in a while - maybe 3 or 4 months - to do a deep clean because I live in Houston and I tend to get very dirty riding my bike, working outside, etc. I would never go back to regular shampoo now that I know of the glorious co-wash! I read a bunch of reviews first and thought it wouldn't work for me because I'm so oily, but it was perfect. It smells good too.
Someone mentioned SwiftyMonkey's blog. Before it was paid access only, she stated that co-washes, if you look at the ingredients, are not much different than any conditioner you can get. Some have more of this or that, but you can literally use almost any conditioner as a co-wash and skip the shampoo entirely. The only trick is that some conditioners will leave build up (silicone) and some may not work for your scalp/hair - so testing is necessary. She suggests a good one to try first was made by Neutrogena.
Haha yeah, some kind of secret sister thing is going on here!
Although my skin is rather dry, not oily..I'm definately going to try out co-washing with my new conditioner, but I wanted to see what shampoo+conditioner was doing before trying conditioner only. I think co-washing originated as conditioner only washing and then some brands started to develop specialized co-wash products. I've actually read about New Wash about a year ago! Back then I thought it was too expensive.. I still think it's pretty expensive, but might try it out in the future (I have my new shampoo/conditioner to finish first
)
@dixiedragon You're probably right.. I'm just not mentally and emotionally prepared for acceptance yet
dixiedragon
Well-Known Member
I have put in next to 0 effort to figure out how to style my hair - TBG I hate the sound/feel of a blow dryer and I hate the feel of a curling iron. IIRC, i read that a dry shampoo was good for that - something like it gives you 2nd day hair, vs 1st day too-clean hair and 3rd too-dirty hair. So maybe the dry shampoo applies a bit of texture and grip? Just something to think about.
Thanks! Well.. styling is maybe not the best word to use for what I do with my hair either.. I don't blow dry or curl. What I mean by 'styling' is that my hair gets a bit of wave when I put it in a braid or bun - and that it keeps the wave when I take it out. It would be great if dry shampoo could do that, so I'll definately look into it! Dry shampoo would be useful for hasty moments and travel situations anyway.
Haha I think I have about a year of experimenting in front of me with all the great suggestions in this thread
Haha I think I have about a year of experimenting in front of me with all the great suggestions in this thread
Hi- I just wanted to let you know that while, yes, there are some horror stories, there are also stories of people that have used lye shampoo bars for quite a while without any issues. I am one of those people, as is part of my family. As for me, I have been making and using my own shampoo bars for a little over 2 years now, with great results. It is all I have used in that time. I continue using the shampoo bar because it gives my hair so much body. I don't wash my hair every day, however, and wonder if that is one of the reasons the lye shampoo bar has not caused any damage. I also have a wash 'n' wear type of hair cut and don't even own a blow dryer or curling iron. Anyway, just wanted to let you know that not everyone has terrible experiences with the lye shampoo bars. For me (us) it has been quite the opposite.
I agree with Dreamer. Have used Genny's shampoo bar (except with goat milk) for 5 years straight - and still love it. Shoulder length, fine (& now graying) hair, with a blow dryer and no acid rinse - washing every 4 days. She has my never ending thanks.
I also wonder what your particular hair type is and how long or short you keep your hair. I really do believe that many of the people who have had horrible experiences with lye soap on their hair, also had very long hair. Frequency of use, probably does have something to do with it as well, as you mentioned. One other question: Do you also use a rinse of any sort other than simply rinsing with water?
My hair is about shoulder-length and is considered fine, but I have a lot of it (so the various hair cutters have described it). I can imagine that people with very long hair may have more tendency with problems using the bars since the bottom or their hair is a few years old already and therefore more damaged.
As far as rinsing, I only use water. I also only shampoo 1X/shower. Some people have told me they shampoo 2X/shower. Once is enough for my hair (and my family's).
Miki
Well-Known Member
Thanks for starting this discussion, I have just joined SMF and have been reading a lot. I started soapmaking HP not that long ago and am totally hooked, and after no poo'ing my hair for several years started washing my hair with my own soap based on a large percentage of co but combined with supermarket available oils. I had heard of shampoo bars, had even bought one from a local market which was the starting point of my own soap production... this bar was 100% co. I love washing my hair with soap, only lately has my hair started getting gunky after a day or two after washing but have noticed losing less hair in the sink after washing and hair growth on my slightly receding hairline.
Using Genny's recipe I'm hoping to go that step further and hoping that I'm not in that percentage of damaged hair.... after reading your comments it might be an idea to use a commercial shampoo now and then...
Using Genny's recipe I'm hoping to go that step further and hoping that I'm not in that percentage of damaged hair.... after reading your comments it might be an idea to use a commercial shampoo now and then...
KimT2au
You bet they die
Hi Szaza, SwiftCraftMonkey has made her site a pay site but she has a$1US /month subscription and you can cancel at any time. I have just taken out this subscription to see if I make use of the site. Having gone there for the first time last night I found my head was swimming with the information available. Also, Marie from Humblebee and Me has some lovely shampoo and conditioner recipes on her site.
It's very nice to hear that some of you have had such a succes with using lye based shampoo bars! It's a bit of a reassurance I have been noticing more split ends though... and my mom said she thought her hair was thinning while using a lye based shampoo bar. I also have super long hair and I just don't want to take the risk. We're both back to detergent based shampoo. I'm still trying to find a good fit, because I didn't like the shampoo I used before, but as I'm only washing my hair once a week it'll take a while to experiment enough to find a system that's working for me. The only thing I'm sticking with from the lye based shampoo is the lemon juice rinse. Even with normal shampoo I feel it makes my hair shinier and easier to comb through
I hope you find a way to wash your hair that you like!
I have been noticing more split ends though... and my mom said she thought her hair was thinning while using a lye based shampoo bar. I also have super long hair and I just don't want to take the risk. We're both back to detergent based shampoo. I'm still trying to find a good fit, because I didn't like the shampoo I used before, but as I'm only washing my hair once a week it'll take a while to experiment enough to find a system that's working for me. The only thing I'm sticking with from the lye based shampoo is the lemon juice rinse. Even with normal shampoo I feel it makes my hair shinier and easier to comb throughI also really liked washing my hair with soap.. but I've had long hair all my life and don't want to risk losing it. As stated above by @earlene, the length of your hair and how often you wash it probably has an influence on your results. Short hair just doesn't have as much time to get damaged than long hair does
I hope you find a way to wash your hair that you like!Thanks! I've heard a lot about SwiftCraftMonkey. Maybe one day I'll feel ready to make lotions and detergent shampoo myself and that same day I'll take a subscription immediately, but right now I'm still playing around with my store bought "customizable shampoo base"
I'm sure longer hair can show more cumulative damage with lye soap, but shorter hair can show damage too, so don't dismiss that possibility.
I can tell if my husband uses lye soap to wash his collar length hair, because it looks dull and loses its nice wave. My hair was only to the middle of my shoulder blades when I had to do a drastic trim after a year of using soap on my hair.
If washing your hair with lye-based soap works for you, more power to you and your hair. But the consequences of it not working on a person's hair of any length can be rather upsetting.
I can tell if my husband uses lye soap to wash his collar length hair, because it looks dull and loses its nice wave. My hair was only to the middle of my shoulder blades when I had to do a drastic trim after a year of using soap on my hair.
If washing your hair with lye-based soap works for you, more power to you and your hair. But the consequences of it not working on a person's hair of any length can be rather upsetting.
Yep, my hair was relatively short (just below the ears) and had to go to just about a pixie after about 6-8 months. My hair was like straw.
Some can get away with it but I won't risk it and advise my customers that ask for soap shampoo I don't make them or recommend them.
Some can get away with it but I won't risk it and advise my customers that ask for soap shampoo I don't make them or recommend them.
jentlesoaps
Active Member
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There is a lot of controversy about pH and soap. However as soon as you get your hair wet it increases the pH of the mantle to 7. Water isn't harmful to the hair and a gentle soap used in the correct way isn't going to harm your hair (which is dead) or cause frizziness or breakage. I think the fine art of using soap based shampoo on long hair has been lost. I've recently discovered that I can 'cheat' a little and protect my hair at the same time. First wet your hair and work your low pH (gentle formula) conditioner (I use Regis Cashmere) into your hair. Using a shampoo bar with a lower pH (soap based 8-9) wash the scalp and oily hair close to the scalp. Reapply conditioner and rinse. I use my shampoo soap every week and it's the first thing I reach for because it cleans so well. It may work for you, and it may not.
Wow.. @shunt2011 those kinds of stories are exactly why I've decided not to use lye shampoo anymore.. I have some friends who do lots of crazy things with their hair until it breaks and then cut it short and let it grow out again. So I guess there are people who don't mind taking the risk if they like what it does to their hair, but I'm not one of those people. It's good to be aware of the risks though, so thank you for sharing your story!
