Rebatching GM CP

[walkinwounded]

I was wondering if anyone ever rebatch GM CP? Does this turn the soap brown like overheated GM CP, or does sapinification neutralize the lye enough, but then would the heat turn milk brown???? I want to CP GM soap because HP does not let me add enough milk to my liking and "buffing" it up with powdered milk I do not like as much as fresh milk, so I was thinking I could CPing milk soap so I can 50/50 with fresh milk, then letting it cure for a month or so, then rebatching/ milling it so I can add tempermental FO and other delicate ingrediants. Would this work withouting ruining the milk portion or browning/burning etc etc????

Any knowledge or advice would be muchly appreciated, before I may ruin a nice batch of GM.

 

[MeadowHillFarmCT]

maybe I am not understanding your process but why wouldn't you use all milk for your fluid to begin with? If you freeze the GM and continuously stir the frozen milk and lye it should not burn. I do this all the time and my milk doesn't burn. You MUST stir constantly when you add the lye to the frozen milk or it will burn. The key is to keep it moving so it keeps the solution cool.

Sorry if I missed the point totally.

I have rebatched GM soap without burning the GM or it turning brown.. If I get brown it is because the colorant morphed.. I only rebatch a batch that went wrong. I never planned a rebatch.

 

[walkinwounded]

I personal don't like a 100% of the fluid to be milk, theres nothing wrong with it, maybe its just my imagination, but I find its more bubbly when I use 50/50. So I mix the lye with water or aloe juice, then add to the oils, stir, then add the milk. This is how I CP my goats milk soaps, BUT, some FO's, additives, or EO are problematic in CP. Soooooooooo I can HP, but my options for HP are to leave-out the milk(not an option) or leave out an ounce or two until the soap paste has cooked then replace it with milk and add after the cook, but it does not produce as nice of a soap as the 50/50 CP batch that I make, so I thought that maybe I could make the 50/50 CP GM and then rebatch it to add the tender ingredients, as long as it did not turn the CP GM brown like over-heating with lye does, but if I'm understanding you, you say it does not even with your 100% GM soap. Which is great news then.

 

[Stinkydancer]

I personal don't like a 100% of the fluid to be milk, theres nothing wrong with it, maybe its just my imagination, but I find its more bubbly when I use 50/50. So I mix the lye with water or aloe juice, then add to the oils, stir, then add the milk. This is how I CP my goats milk soaps, BUT, some FO's, additives, or EO are problematic in CP. Soooooooooo I can HP, but my options for HP are to leave-out the milk(not an option) or leave out an ounce or two until the soap paste has cooked then replace it with milk and add after the cook, but it does not produce as nice of a soap as the 50/50 CP batch that I make, so I thought that maybe I could make the 50/50 CP GM and then rebatch it to add the tender ingredients, as long as it did not turn the CP GM brown like over-heating with lye does, but if I'm understanding you, you say it does not even with your 100% GM soap. Which is great news then.

Why can't you HP Goat Milk? It takes a little more stirring but I have done it quite a bit.

This is a goat milk HP soap that I did: (sorry for the link I tried to put the pic up and it wouldn't work)- the fragrance is browning it more than the milk itself. I just cook it at a lower temp in the oven- I never use a Crockpot for HP- hated it that way.
http://www.etsy.com/listing/93057834/eg ... -milk-soap

As a matter of fact- I just rebatched a CP Goat Milk soap that overheated on me since I pulled it out of the fridge too early. My bad! Anyway- that soap is way more brown even before the rebatch than my HP GM soaps. The good news is that it's useable now at least...it was orange-ish brown-ish Spam soap before the rebatch. Now it's brown and getting more brown with Warm Vanilla Sugar.

I like to HP Goat Milk soap for browning fo's. Overall- I like HP better for everything mostly with a couple of exceptions.

 

[walkinwounded]

This is very interesting Stinkydancer. You have me puzzled with delite.
How do you HP GM? would the lye not heat your soap and GM in the oven to a point were it burned or browned anyway? If this is possible, it would be my preferred way, I too am starting to lean more to HP soaping, more control, cheaper (less EO), more work usually thou, but thats ok.
If your not giving any secrets away, what exactly is your process?

 

[Stinkydancer]

This is very interesting Stinkydancer. You have me puzzled with delite.
How do you HP GM? would the lye not heat your soap and GM in the oven to a point were it burned or browned anyway? If this is possible, it would be my preferred way, I too am starting to lean more to HP soaping, more control, cheaper (less EO), more work usually thou, but thats ok.
If your not giving any secrets away, what exactly is your process?

I would be more than happy to tell you but then I'd have to kill you. Ok- totally kidding.

Please bear in mind- I'm biased as I like HP better though I started many moons ago with CP and I'm kind of over it. I do it for some special bars but generally I like to cook things.

Regarding the lye- I pour my Lye in batches- I have 4 pitchers and I pour them all at the same time. I put masking tape on the pitchers and write whatever batch the lye is for.
Sometimes this lye sits for a couple of days up to a week- I have a safe place to keep the Lye pitchers that is locked. If you have a safe place I suggest pouring a few pitchers at a time.

I will say- I only CP 100% GM. For HP I do a 50/50 mix- I pour the lye into my Aloe Juice or H20. This might help to retain the color since I'm not at 100% milk- but you really can't tell the difference. They are both pretty awesome as far as bubbles and benefits.

For the GM soaps- the Lye is no longer hot until it hits the oils. I don't freeze the milk since I'm cooking anyway but it is kept in the fridge to keep it cold. I heat my oils just like normal and cool them down until the pot feels luke warm. When it is Luke warm- I stick blend the GM in. At first- it can look curdled but it isn't. Just keep stick blending without Lye until it looks smooth and creamy white. Then I pour the Lye and stick blend immediately until I get a nice thick trace.

Then I cover and put into a 180 degree oven. If my oven would cook at 170 I would do it that way. I normally cook at 190 (for Coconut Milk) or 200 for no milk and Aloe Juice.

I check after 30 minutes- if it looks separated then beat the heck out of it with a whisk until it comes together- it will.
Then check again every 30 minutes until done. Sometimes it seems to separate and sometimes not- with a thick trace it separates less.

Without a browning fragrance- (remember I'm partial to HP)- you will have a tan-ish soap but it looks nice I think. Not every batch will be horribly brown like you used Vanilla mostly tan- my CP GM soap is almost white if I don't gel and that's 100% GM. If you just exert some patience and for the love of Pete- DO NOT use a crock pot. Use a stainless pot with a cover and your oven- your batches even with just this will be consistently better and smoother.

I don't think there is a secret to HP- it's more patience than anything. Also- if you like marbling instead of swirls- your good with HP.

I do have to say- HP soap- same recipe as CP- is considerably better in my opinion. More lather and the EO's/FO's hold up better.
HP is way more work than CP to perfect the craft- I can get a CP batch done in 10 minutes...but I don't like the soap as much as my HP soaps. I do CP more for demand from customers anymore- there are certain CP soaps I have people swear by. I've been there done it with CP I guess...HP, just in my opinion, is a nicer product to use at least for me. So there ya have my rant on CP versus HP. I also think HP soaps have better lather with less Coconut Oil...I tested it out and it seemed true for me.

If I can figure out our video camera- I'll try to get a video up so you can see what I'm talking about when adding the milk and the final product.

Hope this helps- if I left anything out or you have questions- let me know.

 

[walkinwounded]

Thats perfect Stinkydancer!

Thank you very much, I understand everything you said, I'm going to try this method next batch, tan colour I do not mind, horrible brown I hate, unless its chocolate scented . I to am turning more to HP for all the same reasons you mentioned, and with sodium lactate I can get nice smooth bars like CP now as well as swirl! The only problem was the GM, but if this method works, I will be switching entirely to HP.

Thank you again. :idea:

Have you ever tried rebatching CP GM before, and if you have, what was your result in quality and colour?

 

[IrishLass]

Although I guess you could say that I'm a 98% CP'er and 2% HP'er, I totally second Stinkydancer's method of doing HP in the oven. I wouldn't do HP any other way.


IrishLass

 

[walkinwounded]

Thanx gratia, I am going to try rebatching some pieces and ends of GM soap. But I did not want to burn the heck out of it and badly discolour it.



IrishLass / Stinkydancer

Why do you like this method better?
Is it really clumpy after the cook, or is it farely paste like?

 

[IrishLass]

Why do you like this method better?

I personally like it better because, for one, I'm not limited to the size of my crockpot. I have varying sizes of stainless steel stock pots, so I can make a bigger batch if I want and still have good head-space in case of volcanoes.

Also, I know the exact temp of my oven and the heat is even and well-regulated, whereas with my crockpot, the exact temp is unknowable and the heat is spotty and inconsistent.

Is it really clumpy after the cook, or is it farely paste like?

The consistency after cook all depends on your water amount and/or if you used additives like sodium lactate and/or sugar- all of which help with fluidity. I myself use a full water amount (28% lye solution), and I also add sodium lactate and sugar, so mine is fairly jam-like at pour, as opposed to mashed potato-like or paste-like. Once it's all in my mold, though, the top surface sets up real quick and gets a clumpy look to it within just a minute or 2. I make my HP so it slightly overfills my mold so I can plane my ugly tops off without reducing the size of my bars by much.


IrishLass

 

[walkinwounded]

IrishLass

Thanks very much for the help, this info is worth its weight in gold for me Its all making sense to me. I love the planing idea for the tops, they are so fugly sometimes.

Do you add any silk amino acid?
Have you ever used honey rather than sugar? Why do you prefer sugar?
Do you set your oven at 170 degrees?
How long do you normally cook, 2hrs-3hrs?