Rebatch Lye Crystals

[earlene]

Thank you for all that info!

I am just concerned about selling them. I obviously don’t want to get sued!

I will look into those images but is soda ash ever hard and crusty? Also, our basement (where the soap is) flooded and so it’s super humid (and made some of my soap sweat!) so if lye does absorb water would that mean it’s absolutely not lye? Why did it hurt my tongue? Also, how would air bubbles be crusty?

Yes, soda ash can be hard & crusty.

Why did it hurt your tongue? Did you lick it directly? Or did you follow the suggestions of how to Properly & Safely conduct the Zap Tongue test?
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-to-properly-safely-conduct-the-zap-tongue-test.63199/Do you have a 9-volt battery on hand? I suggest you compare what that feels like to the Zap you get from your soap, but make sure to follow the directions in the thread I linked. Please report back if you do both those things and let us know your result.

Air bubbles would not be crusty as far as I know, but I didn't suggest that.

If your soap gets sweaty and still has what looks like that sort of snowflake-like flake or what you are calling a crystal, then, no, it can't be a NaOH flake. NaOH pulls water to itself.

Test that out yourself and take a few lye flakes or beads out of your dry lye bottle & sit them in a dish of a with enough color contrast that you can see clearly what happens. Then set it out on the counter open to the air. If your air is humid, the lye will get wet eventually. I cannot say how long this will take, as it will depend on how humid it is in the area where you put the dry lye & how long it sits there. It would happen faster in a bathroom that is used frequently, or in a kitchen with a pot of boiling pasta, and less slowly in an Air Conditioned room and even slower in a room with a dehumidifier. But it would eventually happen.

Of course if you do try this test, be sure to monitor the left-out-in-the-open lye and ensure that any pets, children or other living creatures in your home do not come into contact with it.

Good luck and let us know if you try these things.

 

[Green Mountain Farm]

Yes, soda ash can be hard & crusty.

Why did it hurt your tongue? Did you lick it directly? Or did you follow the suggestions of how to Properly & Safely conduct the Zap Tongue test?
https://www.soapmakingforum.com/threads/how-to-properly-safely-conduct-the-zap-tongue-test.63199/Do you have a 9-volt battery on hand? I suggest you compare what that feels like to the Zap you get from your soap, but make sure to follow the directions in the thread I linked. Please report back if you do both those things and let us know your result.

Air bubbles would not be crusty as far as I know, but I didn't suggest that.

If your soap gets sweaty and still has what looks like that sort of snowflake-like flake or what you are calling a crystal, then, no, it can't be a NaOH flake. NaOH pulls water to itself.

Test that out yourself and take a few lye flakes or beads out of your dry lye bottle & sit them in a dish of a with enough color contrast that you can see clearly what happens. Then set it out on the counter open to the air. If your air is humid, the lye will get wet eventually. I cannot say how long this will take, as it will depend on how humid it is in the area where you put the dry lye & how long it sits there. It would happen faster in a bathroom that is used frequently, or in a kitchen with a pot of boiling pasta, and less slowly in an Air Conditioned room and even slower in a room with a dehumidifier. But it would eventually happen.

Of course if you do try this test, be sure to monitor the left-out-in-the-open lye and ensure that any pets, children or other living creatures in your home do not come into contact with it.

Good luck and let us know if you try these things.

I touched my tongue directly onto one of the white crusts. I’ve never heard of using the lather but will try that!

It was first salty and then I kind of stung my tongue. Lol, I’m nervous to touch my tongue to a battery!

I will try washing a bar and see if they come back as well.

Thank you all for the help!

 

[earlene]

I would caution you not to directly lick what you think might be lye. As I mentioned before, I did that when I was new and my tongue was so badly burned that it took weeks for it to heal and return to normal.

 

[Marsi]

Thank you for all that info!

I am just concerned about selling them. I obviously don’t want to get sued!

I will look into those images but is soda ash ever hard and crusty? Also, our basement (where the soap is) flooded and so it’s super humid (and made some of my soap sweat!) so if lye does absorb water would that mean it’s absolutely not lye? Why did it hurt my tongue? Also, how would air bubbles be crusty?

Your soap pictures appear to have the sort of soda ash that form from sweat beads (often seen in overheated soap)

Yes, soda ash can be hard and crusty.

You have made some lovely crystals ... it does not appear at all like undissolved lye.

If you strained the NaOH solution through a stocking, why are you thinking that it is undissolved lye?
As per DeeAnna, it is not possible for solid NaOH to reform in soap batter or soap bar.

I touched my tongue directly onto one of the white crusts. I’ve never heard of using the lather but will try that!

It was first salty and then I kind of stung my tongue. Lol, I’m nervous to touch my tongue to a battery!

I will try washing a bar and see if they come back as well.

Thank you all for the help!

If your first sensation is "salty" then there was no "zap" (zap is fast and you will react immediately)

Lucky for you your soap is not full of solid NaOH
lye will burn a tongue (or any soft tissue of your body) reasonably rapidly - lick it and you will get "burned"

"Also, our basement (where the soap is) flooded and so it’s super humid (and made some of my soap sweat!) so if lye does absorb water would that mean it’s absolutely not lye? Why did it hurt my tongue? Also, how would air bubbles be crusty?"

your curing environment is not friendly for soap
(like the face of your soap, air bubbles are a surface where ash, and ash crystals, form)

your soap is fresh
fresh soap is caustic
dont lick fresh soap

exclude air from your fresh soap (bag or wrap)

 

[Rsapienza]

I’m glad someone mentioned the face that you strained your lye solution. That leads me to the assumption that they can’t be lye crystals. I’m not sure what it is, but if you touched you tongue to it and didn’t get an immediate zap, it’s not lye. Trust me, you’ll know when you get zapped!! Ask me how I know

 

[cmzaha]

I will apologize that you did not like my answer, and I was not trying to be snarky. But when I have a batch go south I do not continue on until I figure out why it went south. As I am sure I mentioned I have had one batch which happened just a few years that did end up with lye crystals and I knew for sure they were because I saw them when I dumped them in my lye solution. Knowing I could do nothing about it I went ahead and poured the soap in the mold de-molded and tossed the batch knowing I could not save it. So when you stated your soap had soap crystals and you used frozen milk I assumed you knew you had un-dissolved lye crystals and figured they would dissolve after mixing your batter. As Rsapienza just mentioned you cannot miss being zapped, a sting is not the same.

I have had all forms of ash and I had soap crystals form on the surface of my soaps which can actually be hard and crunchy or soft and fuzzy, why who knows but soap does what it wants to. Also, if I were to lick a soap I guarantee it would burn my tongue whether it was truly a zappy soap or not. Let your soap cure out.

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

One post in that thread with the most unusual crystal formations growing on soap I have ever seen: Deanna, I have a question...
and again more pictures here Deanna, I have a question...
In this photo, what I'm more used to seeing with extensive soda ash: Deanna, I have a question...
Sadly, the links to most of the images in that thread seem to be broken, but I the ones I linked above still show images.

I have some of those furry crystals on my Franklin soap!

 

[ScentimentallyYours]

It was first salty and then I kind of stung my tongue. Lol, I’m nervous to touch my tongue to a battery!

touching your tongue to a 9 V battery is nothing compared to putting your tongue on lye crystals!!! If you were brave enough to put your tongue on your soap, go ahead and try the 9 V. What you think is a zap may be something different. @earlene had a very good suggestion with the battery, but there is also a link up there on how to properly conduct a zap test. By the way, my Franklin soap, which was salted out, tastes very very salty. After confirming that it was not lye heavy at all, I did lick it. I don’t recommend following my example.

 

[Green Mountain Farm]

Your soap pictures appear to have the sort of soda ash that form from sweat beads (often seen in overheated soap)

Yes, soda ash can be hard and crusty.

You have made some lovely crystals ... it does not appear at all like undissolved lye.

If you strained the NaOH solution through a stocking, why are you thinking that it is undissolved lye?
As per DeeAnna, it is not possible for solid NaOH to reform in soap batter or soap bar.


If your first sensation is "salty" then there was no "zap" (zap is fast and you will react immediately)

Lucky for you your soap is not full of solid NaOH
lye will burn a tongue (or any soft tissue of your body) reasonably rapidly - lick it and you will get "burned"



your curing environment is not friendly for soap
(like the face of your soap, air bubbles are a surface where ash, and ash crystals, form)

your soap is fresh
fresh soap is caustic
dont lick fresh soap

exclude air from your fresh soap (bag or wrap)

I started straining it through a stocking after this happened. With these soaps, it was just a strainer.

 

[earlene]

Not sure what kind of strainer you did use, but when I use a strainer for lye solution, it is steel mesh, tiny little holes. No solid lye is going to get through it. Straining through a stocking seems a bit more of an ordeal, but if you set it up like a jelly strainer, it can work as well. But the steel mesh strainer is far easier to clean and re-use.

 

[kagey]

doesn't lye crystals turn into soap crystals if soap is left alone to cure long enough?

 

[ResolvableOwl]

Only if they have residual oils to react with. Even if the soap around the lye crystals has some positive superfat, it would somehow have to come to (soak into) the lye clumps – if this happens by itself at all (diffusion), it's a painfully slow process, and you don't want to rely on it.

 

[Green Mountain Farm]

Hello everyone! Thank you for all the responses! I caught a cold and took a while to get better before getting back to figuring out what’s happening to my soap. I did rinse off a bar, I didn’t use gloves and did not experience any irritation (I’ve been handling the bars so much I figured it wouldn’t hurt me). The crystals have not reappeared.

 

[AAShillito]

Hi! I'm glad you were able to start figuring out the issue! And I'm assuming your rose patchouli soap is the darker one? It's lovely!

 

[Green Mountain Farm]

Hi! I'm glad you were able to start figuring out the issue! And I'm assuming your rose patchouli soap is the darker one? It's lovely!

This is my rose patchouli. Thank you! It’s one of my favorites.

u

 

[AAShillito]

This is my rose patchouli. Thank you! It’s one of my favorites. View attachment 61811uView attachment 61812

Omg that is so beautiful! Do you mind sharing what patchouli/fragrance you used? I have been worried about finding a nice one?

 

[Green Mountain Farm]

Omg that is so beautiful! Do you mind sharing what patchouli/fragrance you used? I have been worried about finding a nice one?

I only use essential oils. I used equal amounts of patchouli and rose essential oils and it smells like a gorgeous perfume!

 

[AAShillito]

I only use essential oils. I used equal amounts of patchouli and rose essential oils and it smells like a gorgeous perfume!

Cool! What is your EO source? If you don't mind?

 

[Sweet Potato Soapl]

I would imagine this would be a candidate for salting out, at the very least? As I understand that process, it would definitely ensure all the lye was dissolved.
You won't end up with quite the same soap, but at least it wouldn't all be entirely wasted.

Salting out?

I am new to the forum, this was one of my first posts, and to get snarky replies that make me feel like a failure has tempted me to leave this group. I was so excited to have a soap making community but y’all did not welcome me in a kind way. Please consider your words before posting. I asked one innocent question. I never should have said anything other than that question but assumed I could share some of my sadness with you all. I got ONE “I’m sorry” the rest of your messages made me feel dumb.

Next time simply answer the question. Do not launch into asking why I made a stupid mistake. It honestly made me feel like a failure. You could really harm someone’s soap making journey by doing that. If you had stopped and thought, you would have realized that nobody would ruin a batch of soap and then continue making more the same way ON PURPOSE.

I thought that I would get some sympathy because YALL I ruined a lot of soap on ACCIDENT and it has cost me quite a bit of money but a LOT of time and effort! I was super excited about these soaps as well! I mean, I’ve got 60 bars of rose patchouli soap that has lye crystals on it and I have to throw it out! Another 60 bars of sweet orange soap that took me an hour JUST TO POUR that is going in the trash. Not to mention a soap I spent hours on to donate to the breast cancer foundation… ruined. That’s just a few.

Thank you for trying to help. Next time do it in a supportive way. I will consider staying but if this continues I will have to leave.

Going back in I MUST have missed something.

I know my mistake; I didn’t allow the lye to dissolve fully in the milk. Yes I added sugar and salt. No, I don’t do heat transfer since I use frozen goat milk. No oozing or anything.

Salting out may or may not get rid of the actual crystals and I personally think it makes for an awful soap, but that is my opinion and I find it simply not worth the trouble. I have lost very large expensive batches of lotions because of a stupid mistake but life moves on. I am sorry I would trash all the soaps and chalk it up for a very hard-learned lesson. I do have to wonder though why after one bad batch you continued on with the same process and made several more. It is certainly your call but I know what I would do to be on the safe side and yes I closed my eyes tossed the 6 lb batch of soap due to the same reason and I was a well-seasoned soap maker when this happened. I simply was very distracted the day it happened.

When do you add your salt and sugar if you are freezing your milk? Your additives need to be dissolved separately in water and added into your oils separate from your milk/lye solution. Also, this is the drawback with using frozen milks and purees you really cannot tell if all the lye is fully dissolved and risk this happening which is why many use the 50/50 method of dissolving their lye in 50% of the allotted liquid as water then dissolving your additives in the milk which is not frozen but very cold, or warm a portion of the milk to dissolve the additives and freeze the milk to slushy.

Very good question and advice

Through my research (which is extensive) the lye crystals do not form but they float to the outside of the bars. They are not present until at least a few days into the cure. And I was not checking my soap every day as it cured, unfortunately.
They are also hard to spot, so it really wasn’t intentional. I would not waste money on purpose, haha!

 

[Green Mountain Farm]

Cool! What is your EO source? If you don't mind?

I actually found small containers at Hobby Lobby that are good quality (surprisingly!) but I was just using those to experiment with different combinations. I buy all my bulk EOs at Whole Sale Supplies Plus. They have free shipping and amazing prices but it usually takes them at least 2 weeks to ship. So plan ahead lol!