Rapeseed Wax

[Fiona Robertson]

sorry i didn't explain myself properly...I meant bubbles in the soap as in the picture below. I'm still having problems despite trying all the usual tricks and am wondering if its because I'm having to soap hot because of the wax. I hope your month out of the UK is a holiday and you have a great time!!

 

[Fiona Robertson]

Here's a picture of the soap I made using 10% RS wax and 20% shea butter. If you're interested in the full recipe, I can post it. View attachment 40151

Yes I'm interested!!

 

[gloopygloop]

Here's a picture of the soap I made using 10% RS wax and 20% shea butter. If you're interested in the full recipe, I can post it. View attachment 40151

Thank you that is interesting and looks a little like the lather I got when washing up the pots, I usually get much more abundant lather even at 15% CO so I am thinking that RS was could be a dampener? I used both CB and SB at 10% each I think but don’t have recipe in front of me right now and am away from home.

 

[MarnieSoapien]

The recipe I used was:
CO 25%
OO 25%
Shea 20%
Sweet Almond Oil 15%
Rapeseed Wax 10%
Castor 5%
With the other batches I've made and tested with RS wax, I've noticed the soap cracks after some time in the shower.

 

[Fiona Robertson]

The recipe I used was:
CO 25%
OO 25%
Shea 20%
Sweet Almond Oil 15%
Rapeseed Wax 10%
Castor 5%
With the other batches I've made and tested with RS wax, I've noticed the soap cracks after some time in the shower. View attachment 40163

Oh that's interesting, I just put an 8% wax bar in the shower yesterday so I will watch for cracking. I haven't experienced this with the other bars. This one also has sugar in which has boosted its lather.

 

[gloopygloop]

sorry i didn't explain myself properly...I meant bubbles in the soap as in the picture below. I'm still having problems despite trying all the usual tricks and am wondering if its because I'm having to soap hot because of the wax. I hope your month out of the UK is a holiday and you have a great time!!

View attachment 40152

Yes am chilling out!
What does seem to be coming out of this is that the RSW is probably not going to be a replacement for SW and this does sadden me.
Marnisoapien do you think that the high SB content dampened the lather somewhat, I find it does tend to in higher amounts.

 

[Fiona Robertson]

I have just had my second shower with the 8% wax and after careful evaluation () I do not care for it as much as the 5% bars. I am thinking that it is best to treat the wax in a similar way to beeswax. It feels to me that more wax makes the lather feel 'heavy', bordering on slimy although I have used a lot of olive oil. I also found the 8% to be just a tad drying on the skin. I really like the 5% bars and with the addition of some sugar and a play around with the superfat I will enjoy using these soaps. Enjoy your holidays!!

 

[gloopygloop]

I have just had my second shower with the 8% wax and after careful evaluation () I do not care for it as much as the 5% bars. I am thinking that it is best to treat the wax in a similar way to beeswax. It feels to me that more wax makes the lather feel 'heavy', bordering on slimy although I have used a lot of olive oil. I also found the 8% to be just a tad drying on the skin. I really like the 5% bars and with the addition of some sugar and a play around with the superfat I will enjoy using these soaps. Enjoy your holidays!!

That is most interesting, funny when you say slimy as I noticed a lot of slimy feeling when washing up the soap pot, nothing I have ever had before with any soap oils or waxes, it wasn’t the Castile sort either so will wait to see if it’s the same in the cured bars.
Am indeed enjoying the chill out!

 

[gloopygloop]

At last an update on my rapeseed wax soap as its now over 4 weeks cure and I am able to use it.
Recipe had 27% RSW the rest made up of OO and butters and 18% CO. I used duel lye using 5% NaOH plus SL.
As said previously it took forever and a day to trace, this was a tiny batch and stove top HP. Also as stated previously it was slimy to wash up pots with very little lather so I was not expecting much.
Soap is in fact better than I thought it would be, lather is thin and milky / lotion like, the bar is nice and hard. The wash off feel is slightly waxy but not emollient like I am able to achieve with other oils. So conclusion is I am not a fan at all of this, rapeseed wax could be an interesting inclusion for CPers to slow down trace for swirling but other than that so far it seems it isn't bringing much to the party and I think stearic for me would be preferable. I haven't tried hydrogenated rapeseed oil which is mostly what Trex cooking shortening is made from but might give that a try to see how it performs.

 

[Rune]

@gloopygloop This was very interesting to read. I had the same experience, very slow trace and so on. Mine is not even cut yet, so I am exited to try it after a cure (not that I have patience to wait 4 weaks, but I will at least wait a few days). I used 30% rapeseed wax, 5% soy wax, 15% CO, 45% OO, 5% castor. I also did dual lye (I always use that). I really liked/loved that I finally got a fluid batter, very fluid. But if it doesn't make a good soap, well then I guess I have to use soy wax instead. We'll see.

It would have been perfect if your rapeseed wax soap was totally amazing, but the world seems to be anything but perfect. If it soaps too good to be true, it usually is. I have had suspicious thoughts about my soap, because the fluid batter I got, it was really too good to be true. At least around here.

I think I will find a use for rapeseed wax, even if it doesn't make fabulous soap. It probably is a very good ingredient to slow down trace, as you said. And I need such things.

Now I am so curious. What if I cut off a piece of my soap and run to the bathroom.... Let's do it!

I will come back and tell what I think of it (I probably should not think anything, since it is not even cut yet).

 

[Rune]

Hmm. What to think about that.... Okey, first I had some oils at the bottom (I unmolded the leftovers that was scraped into one of the large mixing cups. It became a big soap). I guess that oil inhibited the lather. I washed 4 times in a row, no lather first but and got better and better lather each time. But, it does not lather very well. It does not feel like a soap made with hard oils. It feels like a soft oil soap. If I had not used dual lye, it would probably be like castile soap. So that was disappointing.

On the positive side, it does feel extremely conditioning. I mean, as mild and conditioning as it possibly can be.

I know it is not a very accurate test at all to unmold by the sink and use it right away. I suspect it needs a long cure, probably minimum 8 weaks to improve.

The bottom line is that I'm both disappointed and quite happy at the same time. It is definately an ingredient that slows trace and up the conditioning factor. On the other hand, it can not replace hard oils or soy wax. I'm sure I will use rapeseed wax in the future, probably in every batch. But the main hard oil will be soy wax and not rapeseed wax.

I'm glad I tested it in such high amount, and that you did the same. Or well, you tested the finished soap as it should be done, I did the opposite (but it give me an indicator on what to expect). But we both soaped with it in high amounts and found out that it is marvellous for its ability to make soaping easy. Or well, for me it was so fluid when poured that it did run behind the wax cloth lining. That have of course never happened before with my always thick pudding like batters.

(If someone wonders, my CP soap is not at all caustic at this early stage, it is perfectly safe to use. It is more than gelled. In fact it is overheated by stupid me popping it in the oven).

 

[gloopygloop]

Thank you Rune for that experiment, it looks like we have some similar results here. My batter was also very fluid but I did use a hight water % as it was stove top HP and a very small size batch, plus the SL also added to the fluidity but then my HP is usually very fluid anyhow. I find it interesting that you felt some conditioning which to be honest I don't, maybe the soy wax is helping but then I used 10% cocoa butter and 5% shea butter but still dont feel much in the way of emollience, this could change with age of course, I shall keep some back for that reason.

 

[Rune]

I did also use high water (I normally don't do that). Our rapeseed wax can be made differently, and our recipes are not the same. Yours is cured while mine was barely unmolded. We probably have different water in our sinks, I have soft water and you have maybe hard, perhaps that makes a difference too. Mine had oils weaping out due to overheating, maybe that oils made it extra conditioning? And maybe it will not be conditioning anymore after curing.

I have used higher amounts of shea butter before, and I don't think it is conditioning in the same way. I felt the rapeseed wax gave more of an olive oil feeling type of thing, without the slimy lather (it is a very long time ago since I made a 100% olive oil soap, so might be very wrong about that).

I will try to create a new recipe, where I lower the rapeseed wax to perhaps 20% and use soy wax at perhaps 30%, + more coconut and more castor, and fill up the rest with olive oil. And also add kaolin clay and increasing the KOH percentage from 6 to perhaps 8%. And not use quite as high water amount. And for sure not popping it in the oven. Something like that. I don't have other hard oils available other than coconut oil, so I will just let the waxes play that role instead. I do think I need to order some shea butter, actually. I did really like how soap with shea butter feels.

My big round soap I tested now, is safely stucked away for curing. It will be a great shower soap, because of the size. I had quite a lot of leftover, since I used the same amount of oils that I have been using, 1000 grams. The extra high water amount (30% lye solution) made lots of leftover. I knew it would happen, so that was fine. I wanted an extra bar for the shower.

 

[Rune]

That is most interesting, funny when you say slimy as I noticed a lot of slimy feeling when washing up the soap pot, nothing I have ever had before with any soap oils or waxes, it wasn’t the Castile sort either so will wait to see if it’s the same in the cured bars.
Am indeed enjoying the chill out!

Here the answer to our differences probably is, you cured vs uncured soap. Yes, a sort of a slimy feeling, I would say that too, but not the castile sort of slimy either. It became less slimy the more I washed with it. Maybe I misunderstood that slightly slimy feeling to be conditioning. I feel it is, but maybe it isn't.

When you tested your soap it was cured, I tested at the same level of curing as when you did the dishes. You felt it was slimy-ish then, but not after a cure. Mine will probably also change in that direction after 4 weeks.

 

[gloopygloop]

Your likening to castile soap was a good example there is a similarity but without the slime, a thin milky lather which does not feel luxurient. I really do not like the waxy rinse off feel a sort of grippy feeling on the skin but I can't say that my skin feels dryer or itchy but it doesn't feel as nice as it does with all of my other recipes. I have very hard water by the way so that does affect the lather a little and I would expect less lather than a soft water area.

 

[Rune]

Yes, thin milky lather and waxy rinse off, exactly how mine is too. No, I don't find it luxurient at all. My other soaps are, those with shea butter. But I feel this soap is conditioning like soft oils. But not luxurious, no. At least not yet.

My skin feels quite nice afterwards, but it may have come from the oils that were at the bottom of the soap due to overheating in a plastic container. Those oils ended up on my skin first, and probably did something, perhaps.

 

[gloopygloop]

I did superheat at 5% by the way but still it doesn't feel amazing!

 

[Anglezarke]

I'd be interested for sure. Incidentally, Kerax are based in my own town, as are Droyt.

 

[kellyjones]

OK so I heard back from SK regarding the SAP number for their Rapeseed Stearic no palm wax and they gave me a KoH number of 0.206-0.214. Now if I wanted to use that would I go for say 0.210 to get the average and then to get the NaoH divide that by 1.403 ? which would give me a NaoH number of 0.149 well 0.149.67 to be precise.
The wax I ordered from another company which is pure Rapeseed wax made by Karax arrived but I have not heard back from the company about the SAP number, so I called Karax direct and they told me that it was pure Rapeseed without additives but they dont do a SAP value test on it so have no idea what it would be. It looks like I have reached a dead end on that one which now leaves no choice but to use the SK one I guess.

What do you think of this post, they talk about Stearic acid and hydrogenated waxes, which is what Karax Rapeseed is.
https://skinchakra.eu/blog/archives...rld-of-natural-waxes-in-cosmetics-Part-I.html