Questions about temperture of Lye

[Mary-Jane]

I have made my 3rd loaf of soap and today I made soap with the coffee we will be using with our craft brewery beer. My first two loafs I made with the beer as my liquid. All three times I have froze the beer and the coffee. I have read so much about the lye doing crazy things and was all ready for it. Adding the lye to the beer which I got the carbonation out and adding to the frozen coffee all went well no problems. My question is about the temperture of the coffee/lye and the beer/lye it was 85 degrees all times. My oils I have read should be anywhere from room temperture to 120degrees. I put some hot water in the sink and brought my lye to 93 and oils were 103. I read that they should be within 10 degrees. So, also I read the oils and lye combination should be room temperture....also read higher like 120.... all different....what do I do?? Does the lye when added to the frozen coffee and beer seem right to only get to 85 degrees?? I read so many different things I don't know what to expect. All my soaps so far seem fine when I cut. I read maybe you want gel phase and maybe not... confused about that also.

 

[shunt2011]

Finding what works best for you and your recipe takes a bit of playing. I use room temp lye mixture. I melt my solid oils just until clear and then add my lye mixture. Temperature doesn’t need to be within 10 degrees of each other.

 

[steffamarie]

For having frozen your coffee/beer, 85ish sounds about right for your lye solution to end up at. Often people use that method for milk soaps and that allows them to use full milk without scorching it by making it very hot.

As far as what temperature your lye and oils should be at when you mix them, it's mostly based on personal preferences and what recipe you are using. "Soap cool" for intricate swirls, multiple colors, etc. It gives you a little extra time to work especially when you use full water (around 28% lye concentration). Soap warmer (100 up to about 120) if you use lots of hard oils that need higher temps to stay melted. Your recipe will be a large part of determining how cool or warm you ought to be. Soaping warmer gives a better chance that your soap will go into gel phase, so if you're trying to avoid it, I would soap relatively cool.

I typically shoot for them to be in the same ballpark but 10 degrees isn't a hard and fast rule. I masterbatch my lye solution at 50% which means it ends up being 65 degrees F. My oils usually end up somewhere in the 90ish range - I melt my solid oils until they're just barely melted, then add my liquid oils. That helps bring down the temperature of my solid oils without cooling them off too much.

Gel phase is great for bringing out vibrant colors and it allows you to cut the soap a little sooner in some cases. That's basically all it does. I do insulate all my soaps, and the only real difference is color. I try to avoid partial gel (you just get a slightly darker ring in the middle) by insulating with towels just because I don't care for the look. Whether you gel or not is completely up to you. If you soap cool, it's easier to try to prevent gel, but some soaps want to no matter what you do - even if you fridge them.

That was a lot of information, and it might not all be everyone's experience - I'm still fairly new at this but this is what I've read and what my personal experiences are. I'm sure lots of other more experienced soapers will chime in and pick up where my knowledge base fails!!

 

[Mary-Jane]

I appreciate all your comments. Someone recommened freezing it when I started soapung and now that I have been reading more I read multiply ways to do this. So geling is not something thats necessary? I noticed one recipe I used and the fragrance I used moved very fast made the center of the bar darker. The second recipe was slighly different and the fragrance was great with not making it move fast that one has no visible color change in center.

 

[steffamarie]

Often fragrances that accelerate will cause some temperature increase and throw the soap into gel phase - spiced fragrances as well as some florals will do this pretty consistently. I always take into consideration the FO I'm using - based on the company's tests as well as on customer reviews (recent ones - the older ones may have been for a different formulation).

Gel phase has little to no effect on the finished soap other than color.

When I do milk soaps, I use the split method. I masterbatch my lye at 50% concentration because lye needs at least its own weight in water to dissolve. Then I add my milk to my oils before adding my lye solution. The amount of milk depends on what final lye concentration I want. For me, it's usually 33%. If my recipe calls for 150g lye, I'll use 300g of my solution (50% lye 50% water) and then a further 150g of milk (or my liquid of choice - sometimes it's just water). It allows me to keep lye solution on hand and cooled while still giving me the flexibility to add liquids that aren't water to my soap without having to freeze first.

So much of soaping is just finding what works best for you!! That's why I love being on a forum like this - I'm always finding new things to try in my own practice.

 

[Mary-Jane]

Often fragrances that accelerate will cause some temperature increase and throw the soap into gel phase - spiced fragrances as well as some florals will do this pretty consistently. I always take into consideration the FO I'm using - based on the company's tests as well as on customer reviews (recent ones - the older ones may have been for a different formulation).

Gel phase has little to no effect on the finished soap other than color.

When I do milk soaps, I use the split method. I masterbatch my lye at 50% concentration because lye needs at least its own weight in water to dissolve. Then I add my milk to my oils before adding my lye solution. The amount of milk depends on what final lye concentration I want. For me, it's usually 33%. If my recipe calls for 150g lye, I'll use 300g of my solution (50% lye 50% water) and then a further 150g of milk (or my liquid of choice - sometimes it's just water). It allows me to keep lye solution on hand and cooled while still giving me the flexibility to add liquids that aren't water to my soap without having to freeze first.

So much of soaping is just finding what works best for you!! That's why I love being on a forum like this - I'm always finding new things to try in my own practice.

Thanks for your knowledge. Its really nice to hear other comments on doing this as I am very new to this.

 

[amd]

For coffee and beer, it isn't necessary to freeze them. The only time I would freeze beer is if I have not boiled off the majority of the alcohol - and I would rather boil beer and wait for it to cool than deal with adding lye to frozen anything. (I detest fiddly things.) You can add the lye to coffee/beer that has been refrigerated or you can add it at room temperature. The only thing I would not do is add lye to beer that has only been flattened, but no alcohol removed (unless it were frozen as stated previously) - it can create a lye volcano, which can be dangerous. I prefer to soap safe with beer and boil it for 10 minutes, which will remove 70-80% of the alcohol. I also do not add lye directly to my beer. I mix lye and water 1:1, and then add the remainder of liquid as beer after the lye has been dissolved. (I do the same method with coffee)

Before May of this year: I made fresh lye, added beer cold (boiled) beer, so temp was probably around 150F. Oils were masterbatched at room temp, ranging from 65-80F (depending on the weather as my soap space does not have it's own heating/cooling system). These are guestimates for me, as I don't take temps during making.

After May this year: Used lye at room temp, added cold (boiled) beer, so temp is probably around 90F. Oils, same temp as above, although it being summer they were probably closer to the 80F.

I did get better results with the "After May" temperatures, as far as being able to work with the soap batter. I do gel mine, mostly because it makes them easier to get out of the mold. If there's a gel ring in the middle, I don't mind.

 

[Bubbling-Over]

This is the exact question I had about temperature. Today I made my first CP Soap, I used Frozen milk instead of water. My lye -milk combo was 85 degee after I mixed them with the oil. I put the finished soap in the refrigerator, not sure I needed to, I just didn't want any chance of gelling. It was awesome to come and find exactly what I was looking for. You guys are great.

 

[demirhanunlu]

I mix Oils and lye solution at 60 celsius and works perfect for me. Then 15 minutes of stirring is enough for trace.