Question About Pomace Olive Oil

[El_Granado_Loco]

I think mine is supposed to be food grade, I find it in the supermarket next to oo, sunflower, corn, sesame oil. But I wouldn't use it in cooking, I don't know anybody personally who does...

 

[LBussy]

The solvents are expensive (comparatively), believe me they get every bit out.

 

[sassanellat]

Just FYI: The olive oil extraction process has changed over the years... there used to be more than one pressing, and that generated the grades (EVOO, OO, etc.). Now, there is just one pressing that extracts more of the oil. They then take the dregs, mix it with solvent and then extract the pomace grade. It retains trace of solvent, which is a point of concern for some people. They are often picky about using expelled-pressed or cold-pressed oils, and why they select non-synthetic ingredients (in nearly all cases, the ingredients are safe, but the trace substrates and solvents from the chemistry contaminate the product and they are often not safe. (And no, they don't get every bit out - the chemistry just doesn't work that way. There is *always* measurable trace left. It's the reason why people have issues with many emulsifying waxes or other 'cosmetic-grade' materials in other handmade products. The Italian government won't even allow the sale of the stuff to their citizens - it's export only.) Of course, YMMV... everything has trade-offs these days.

 

[Jstar]

Interesting info about pomace...I didn't know it was solvent extracted. I've never used it, and now that I know this, I probably won't ever. I started making soap to get away from solvents, detergents, etc.

Not knocking those who do use it however..to each his/her own I always say

 

[sassanellat]

Interesting info about pomace...I didn't know it was solvent extracted. I've never used it, and now that I know this, I probably won't ever. I started making soap to get away from solvents, detergents, etc.

Not knocking those who do use it however..to each his/her own I always say

I was shocked, too. I would have had no idea, but my spouse is a food writer and knew about it from studying olive oils for consumption. Pomace is only ~20 cents a pound cheaper, and you can always add some non-saponifiables likw fruit puree or silk if you like that sort of thing.

 

[LBussy]

Various governments restrict the sale of raw dairy and cheeses too ... that an EU government restricts sale of something is not going to scare me. The term solvents also has a bit of a FUD factor (fear, uncertainty, doubt). Water is the most common and most universal solvent in the world, does that make it bad?

The certificate of analysis that I received (where someone who was qualified to do the analysis actually measured) states 100% OO, as does the MSDS. If you say there are measurable amounts of solvent then I'd like to see proof, otherwise it's just FUD scaring people away from something and we're about information here, not more hippie new-age, fear the man stuff.

 

[SoaPetite]

Thanks for all your responses! I guess with all the handling pomace really ought to look like that, greenish/brown/yellowy. I wonder though how those final drops of olive oil provide better skin conditioning...?

I don't know of I'll buy this now but is 110C ok temp to soap with Pomace?

Here is an interesting read about the production of Pomace OO. It says that they use Hexane, a solvent.. but after that, it goes through a process again that removes the solvent making sure it is separated from the oil..and it also mentioned about the solvent evaporating.
If it makes the skin happy, it can't be that bad..?

http://digital.csic.es/bitstream/10261/2464/1/Orujo.pdf

 

[LBussy]

Good stuff SoaPetite ... the document states that the remaining solvent should be under 150 PPM which means lower than 0.015%. I actually measured how much soap I use when shaving, that should be a "high side" estimate of what is actually used from a hard well-cured bar soap. That was around a gram (I need to keep measuring to get an average but let's use that for a sec). If the maximum allowable traces of Hexane are still available in the soap after it cures for 4-6 months in open air, that means you have 0.00015g of hexane on your hands. That's 0.15 mg.

You probably were exposed to way more than that the last time you fueled your car.

110C is really hot to soap, 110F is even on the warmer side of what I've done. I JUST did one last night where both were at room temp (68 degrees F) and I started getting trace in less than 2 mins.

 

[neeners]

I use soapers choice pomace, I'm wondering if its a brand thing.

to me, it stands to reason that each brand of pomace would be different from another. and...the stuff they sell in the Caribbean is really the worst quality of everything (what doesn't get passed in the EU and/or north America gets sent to 3rd world countries), so that could be the reason.

 

[SoaPetite]

Good stuff SoaPetite ... the document states that the remaining solvent should be under 150 PPM which means lower than 0.015%. I actually measured how much soap I use when shaving, that should be a "high side" estimate of what is actually used from a hard well-cured bar soap. That was around a gram (I need to keep measuring to get an average but let's use that for a sec). If the maximum allowable traces of Hexane are still available in the soap after it cures for 4-6 months in open air, that means you have 0.00015g of hexane on your hands. That's 0.15 mg.

You probably were exposed to way more than that the last time you fueled your car.

110C is really hot to soap, 110F is even on the warmer side of what I've done. I JUST did one last night where both were at room temp (68 degrees F) and I started getting trace in less than 2 mins.

Thanks LBussy, quite a fine rough analysis.. 0.15 mg is miniscule I think and it being a solvent, it could still fully evaporate! Sorry my mistake I meant 110 F

 

[sassanellat]

Various governments restrict the sale of raw dairy and cheeses too ... that an EU government restricts sale of something is not going to scare me. The term solvents also has a bit of a FUD factor (fear, uncertainty, doubt). Water is the most common and most universal solvent in the world, does that make it bad?

The certificate of analysis that I received (where someone who was qualified to do the analysis actually measured) states 100% OO, as does the MSDS. If you say there are measurable amounts of solvent then I'd like to see proof, otherwise it's just FUD scaring people away from something and we're about information here, not more hippie new-age, fear the man stuff.

Considering all the things you can culture back out of raw milk, there is a very legitimate reason why there are concerns about raw milk. (Yes, we actually replicate the testing in one of my classes, and, let me tell you, you'd be shocked at the fecal contamination. Bagged lettuce is a lot worse, though.

There are definitely plenty of chemicals in most of our packaged products that are of significant concern. BPA, found in canned food and water bottles is currently averaging 20 parts per billion in American blood. It's bioactive at less than 7 parts per BILLION. It also accumulates, much like pesticides, herbicies, and other organic molecules.

There is quite a bit of literature out there that has motivated the expeller pressed and cold pressed oil industry - have a look if you care, it's a big issue in the food world. There is absolutely going to be significant trace if solvent is used - and labeling laws are very lax about all of these chemicals of concern quite deliberately. I'm not even allowed to bring anything solvent-extracted into the house here, and for good reason.

 

[LBussy]

There is absolutely going to be significant trace if solvent is used - and labeling laws are very lax about all of these chemicals of concern quite deliberately.

Words like "significant" and "very lax" are rhetoric. Surely you know that. You have an opinion to which you are entitled but you've not convinced me of anything other than that you have a personal issue with it. Bringing in an argument about something not even related (BPA) and that which behaves a different way in the body is a strawman fallacy.

Considering all the things you can culture back out of raw milk

Sure, but more FUD. Culturing people's sponges, countertops, dishtowels, even their skin would be even more disgusting. Pouring a glass of milk into a glass which has been on the shelf for a day is very likely a scarier proposition.

I have no doubt working on the microscopic scale gives you a different perspective, but it doesn't carry over to make one's life better. It would be sad if I could never have a Roquefort or Stilton again just because someone decided the bacteria in the raw milk which made it is scary. I feel sorry for people who live that way as well.

 

[sassanellat]

Words like "significant" and "very lax" are rhetoric.

No, actually, it's standard scientific language. It acknowledges that one may never be 100% certain of anything (quantum physics), and supercedes 'my opinion', 'case law', and most people's 'my opinion' in rigor.

You've not convinced me of anything other than that you have a personal issue with it.

You say that as if I care. The truth exists whether you approve of it or not. There is certainly a large body of information about the subject if you are interested in looking at it, and my comments certainly represent the prevailing view.

Bringing in an argument about something not even related (BPA)

You mean precisely BECAUSE it's relevant - as any unintentional trace materials from processing of highly questionable health effects that can bioaccumulate in the body would be. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of 'strawman'.

Sure, but more FUD. Culturing people's sponges, countertops, dishtowels, even their skin would be even more disgusting. Pouring a glass of milk into a glass which has been on the shelf for a day is very likely a scarier proposition.

Nonsense. And there's some actual FUD for you.

I have no doubt working on the microscopic scale gives you a different perspective, but it doesn't carry over to make one's life better.

Bread, cheese, wine, beer, all dairy products, all safe food, medicine, antibiotics, cleaners... you know, nothing important or relevant to everyday people.

It would be sad if I could never have a Roquefort or Stilton again just because someone decided the bacteria in the raw milk which made it is scary. I feel sorry for people who live that way as well.

Actual strawman (they use tested raw milk in the EU - & you know the product and the testing is the same thing you just tried to discard), and it's already been done on the federal level in the US. In fact, the conservatives just doubled the import tax on those same said cheeses to promote the American pasteurized versions. The fact of the matter is that the world is NOT anything like it was before the mass production of milk (mass numbers, machines, hormones, antibiotics, etc.), and the practices used have seriously changed the threats involved. No one is likely to take your cheese away, but it's the world of the lawyer and you can't poison people (unless you're Monsanto, apparently).

I'll end my participation in this particular thread of this conversation with a general note that there are different levels of 'opinion' - from ones based on knowledge with modest interpretation by experts, to just making things up because that's what you want to hear. Many people out there can't seem to make the distinction and that causes a lot of problems in this world (and that's a lifelong observation). I *never* expect (or ask) anyone to believe me blindly, even my students. It's up to individuals these days to do some of the legwork on subjects that you find relevant and make decisions based on FACTS from reliable sources.

 

[LBussy]

In fact, the conservatives just doubled the import tax on those same said cheeses to promote the American pasteurized versions.

So let me get this straight ... it's all the Conservatives' fault then?

You've gone from pedantic drivel to snide remarks, to politics. Religion is next. I'll just wait.

Students? I weep for our youth.

QFT:

No, actually, it's standard scientific language. It acknowledges that one may never be 100% certain of anything (quantum physics), and supercedes 'my opinion', 'case law', and most people's 'my opinion' in rigor.

You say that as if I care. The truth exists whether you approve of it or not. There is certainly a large body of information about the subject if you are interested in looking at it, and my comments certainly represent the prevailing view.

You mean precisely BECAUSE it's relevant - as any unintentional trace materials from processing of highly questionable health effects that can bioaccumulate in the body would be. Perhaps you need to look up the definition of 'strawman'.

Nonsense. And there's some actual FUD for you.

Bread, cheese, wine, beer, all dairy products, all safe food, medicine, antibiotics, cleaners... you know, nothing important or relevant to everyday people.

Actual strawman (they use tested raw milk in the EU - & you know the product and the testing is the same thing you just tried to discard), and it's already been done on the federal level in the US. In fact, the conservatives just doubled the import tax on those same said cheeses to promote the American pasteurized versions. The fact of the matter is that the world is NOT anything like it was before the mass production of milk (mass numbers, machines, hormones, antibiotics, etc.), and the practices used have seriously changed the threats involved. No one is likely to take your cheese away, but it's the world of the lawyer and you can't poison people (unless you're Monsanto, apparently).

I'll end my participation in this particular thread of this conversation with a general note that there are different levels of 'opinion' - from ones based on knowledge with modest interpretation by experts, to just making things up because that's what you want to hear. Many people out there can't seem to make the distinction and that causes a lot of problems in this world (and that's a lifelong observation). I *never* expect (or ask) anyone to believe me blindly, even my students. It's up to individuals these days to do some of the legwork on subjects that you find relevant and make decisions based on FACTS from reliable sources.

 

[sassanellat]

Thanks LBussy, quite a fine rough analysis.. 0.15 mg is miniscule I think and it being a solvent, it could still fully evaporate! Sorry my mistake I meant 110 F

Most of it doesn't evaporate (it's sitting in fat, which acts like a fixative), but it's unclear how much people absorb. But even if we go with Lee's dubious math, that's still a 15,000-150,000,000x a potentially bioactive application (less absorption effects through the skin). Now,the Italians won't allow pomace to be sold in their own country, so I'm guessing that there is work out there on the subject. Oh, yeah...

EPA has calculated a provisional RfD of 0.06 milligrams per kilogram body weight per day (mg/kg/d) based on neurological and reproductive effects in rats.

Hexane is used to extract edible oils from seeds and vegetables, as a special-use solvent, and as a cleaning agent. Acute (short-term) inhalation exposure of humans to high levels of hexane causes mild central nervous system (CNS) effects, including dizziness, giddiness, slight nausea, and headache. Chronic (long-term) exposure to hexane in air is associated with polyneuropathy in humans, with numbness in the extremities, muscular weakness, blurred vision, headache, and fatigue observed. Neurotoxic effects have also been exhibited in rats. No information is available on the carcinogenic effects of hexane in humans or animals. EPA has classified hexane as a Group D, not classifiable as to human carcinogenicity.

http://www.epa.gov/ttnatw01/hlthef/hexane.html

 

[tkine]

I use Pomace & never noticed it tracing faster than other OO. I swirl with no problem.