put soap in freezer-still stuck in mold

[Nite Hawk]

Made a new soap recipe about 3 days ago, used a 7% SF, added a bit of anise oil, and swirled a bit of blue dye for the fun of it. It hardened ok, but can't get ot put of the mold. Put it in the freezer several times, cut around the edges with a butter knife, but the bottom is still stuck tight.to the inside of the mold. Looking at the bottom of the soap through the plastic mold, the color suggests to me there is a fairly decent mositure content even though it is decently hard. The color is basically more yellow than white other than the odd corner that has loosened a bit..Am wondering if I am going to have to let it dry more before it will "turn loose" from the mold..
Putting it in the freezer always worked before, but so far isn't this time
Any other methods of coaxing soap out of a mold?.
Any thoughts out there???
thanks..

 

[jenneelk]

On mine with m&p and cp I have to flip them on parchment or wax paper and push down from the corners and it will separate. Work from the corners to the center. this is what works when it's really stuck. Not ideal if you have the raised center like some do.

Also I've noticed that with cp if you don't freeze it enough it
Does nothing but make it stickier. At least for me.

 

[heartsong]

I've had a few soaps that literally defied quantum physics when it came to getting it out of molds intact...especially ones with intricate designs...did it fully gel? you can try giving it a few extra days of moisture evaporation before trying to extricate...some just won't come out...I am pro-active now...I swab my molds with mineral oil on a cotton ball and they all pop out within-24-48 hours intact.

btw, how much water are you using? 2:1 water/lye (33%) helps a lot...full water is making it stick to the mold.

 

[Nite Hawk]

I finally got the soap out. Don't know how many times I popped it into the freezer, then after an hour or so take it out and work it trying to get it out of the mold.
This is about the 4th batch I have made, but never ever had this much problems removing the soap from the mold before. A small amount of the bottom of the bars stuck to the mold.
This batch was 7 % SF
OO-- 11.9 oz
PKO-- 5.5
pig lard --2.3
COCO --1.7
castor --2.2
Water -9.006 oz
lye 3.2 oz
23.7 oz of oils
Seems to be quite mild, no zap to it,fairly firm, sort of like toffee, but also fairly moist.
Thinking maybe the moisture caused it to stick so badly??
what do you think?
thanks..

 

[heartsong]

IMHO, you're using 3 times the amount of water to lye (3:1)...an awful lot, really...I soap at 33% or a 2:1 water/lye ratio...many here do also...I would suggest reducing the water a bit if you feel comfortable...with reducing water, the batter moves faster, but then it's out of the mold sooner, too.

 

[kazmi]

I agree. I've found 33% works best for me and don't have a problem getting soap out of the mold. I've only used 35% one time when I knew I had a problem FO and someone said to stick with a higher percentage.

 

[Kansas Farm Girl]

I too would reduce your water, if you are comfortable with that. If not you may just have to be patient and let it sit in the mold until enough water evaporates out and it releases. You could try gradually adjusting your water down, for example you used 9.006 oz water to 3.2 oz lye, try reducing to 7.5 water/3.2 lye and see it that helps. You could go as low as 6.4 water but if you are not ready for that try something in between and see if your results are better.

 

[Nite Hawk]

I was following the recommendations of soap calc. Not sure how to calculate a difference in water volume. Heard there was a way to change water volume on the soap calc page, not sure how to do that.....

 

[Nite Hawk]

Another question, changing the water volume, wouldn't that change the lye ratio to make a stronger harsher soap, even when superfatting?? How would one calculate liquid volume if one chose to use milk instead of water??
thanks for the input...

 

[heartsong]

when using soapcalc, it sets the water % on default...you'll see it up there at 38%...click the dot below that and put in the amount 33 to change...it's just like changing the superfat calcs...there is instructions on that site for using soapcalc...you are not making the lye mix harsher, just more concentrated by reducing the water amount...all this water you're putting into the soap must then come out of it anyway...KWIM?

 

[Nite Hawk]

thanks--have to check it out...

 

[Bicycle808]

Heartsong is correct, but the easiest way to think of it is that the amount of lye remains constant,as does the amount of oils, while the h2o goes down. So, the lye/oil ratio is the same. The h2o is just the carrier for the lye.

I agree with everyone else; make soap with the h20 at a 33% of oils instead of 38%. But, another tip that may've helped you with this recent stubborn batch would be to leave the danged thing in the freezer for a looooooooooong time. You'd mentioned that you'd freeze it an hour, then work on it, and repeat (& repeat...& repeat...) Best bet is to throw it in there, watch a movie, do some dishes, start a load of laundry, take a nap, in essence kill time, and then work on it.

hth

 

[Nite Hawk]

So reducing the H20 doesn't make the soap any harsher or milder, just makes the bar harder, similar as how superfatting makes the bar more mild?? So if you reduce the water content the actual "hardness" won't be the same, athough the numbers may read the same before reducing the water??
Can you get the soap too hard?
very interesting...

 

[heartsong]

you're over-thinking this...it doesn't make it harder the less water you use...it makes the new soap firmer so you can get it out of the darn mold!

 

[Nite Hawk]

Just curious,does reducing the H20 also slightly reduce the cure time afterwards??

 

[heartsong]

Just curious,does reducing the H20 also slightly reduce the cure time afterwards??

this is the way I've kinda got it worked out in my head...reducing the water doesn't make the bar any harder than recipe but it makes the soap denser since there is less water to evaporate during the cure...yes, I would say it would take a little less time to cure, but IMHO a bar needs to age 3-5 weeks...the longer it sits, the milder & better the soap performs...it takes a good 6 months for a 100% OO soap to be good.

 

[Bicycle808]

Before we venture into any crazy territory, here's some food for thought:
-using less water will make the bar denser, and harder after a day in the mold--but not harder after full cure
-it will reduce the time it takes to cure in terms of h2o evaporation, but you still wanna give your soap time to cure in terms of mellowing out.
-it will bring about faster trace, so be careful if you're doing anything where you need a slower trace (some swirly stuff), or if you're worried about accelerated trace (some FOs, high palm-content recipes, etc).
-any kind of serious h2o discount can cause lye volcanoes and mayhem like that; 33% of oils, as we've already discussed on this thread, shouldn't cause problems. But, serious water discount is not for the inexperienced soaper. For now, try bumping down to a 33%-of-oils level and see how it goes....

 

[sososo]

This batch was 7 % SF
OO-- 11.9 oz
PKO-- 5.5
pig lard --2.3
COCO --1.7
castor --2.2
Water -9.006 oz
lye 3.2 oz
23.7 oz of oils
thanks..

As the others said - to much water. And, maybe, to much castor. I never put more than 5% castor in soap (8-10% in shampoo). To much castor oil - the soap will be a bit sticky.

 

[cmzaha]

IMHO, you're using 3 times the amount of water to lye (3:1)...an awful lot, really...I soap at 33% or a 2:1 water/lye ratio...many here do also...I would suggest reducing the water a bit if you feel comfortable...with reducing water, the batter moves faster, but then it's out of the mold sooner, too.

I have to fully agree with Monet on this one. I soap a few of my recipes at 25% with is 1.9:1. LOL, I don't have a lot of waiting patience, but I cannot do intricate swirls at this ratio since it moves quite fast. Comes out of the mold well! I never soap higher than 2:1 unless I know for sure I am using an overheater fo or just a plain cranky uncooperative fo ;-)

 

[judymoody]

OK, let's see if this makes sense:

Hardness is a measure of solubility - how quickly the soap will dissolve in water. So Castille soap (100% olive oil) is not hard in soapcalc because it will dissolve quickly even if cured for several months. Not being able to dent it with your fingernail or having it hurt if you dropped it on your foot, doesn't make it "hard."

I liked the use of the word "dense" to describe the effect of upping or lowering the amount of water you use in your recipe. Less water helps the soap to firm up faster, unmold and cut sooner, and less water will be lost to evaporation because there is less to start with. Downside, as already mentioned, is that soap will trace quicker and if you use an accelerating FO you risk curdling, ricing, or seizing.