Purple clay acting weird in soap

[not_ally]

Thanks for the reassurance, Dibbles, I don't use purple that often and have only been making soaps again for six months or so, so didn't have a good sample size to check on. I am going to celebrate by making a purple soap today!

 

[Elise]

The light purple that was visible on the sides of the soap finally disappeared. So I think it is safe to presume @Mobjack Bay have found the right info on oxidation states. And the manganese purple charge in my soap is all evened out.
I like them more like that. Still kind of pointless to have used the clay but they are way less ugly than they were when they had a different color on the outside.

 

[dibbles]

They still look nice @Elise, even if they weren't what you wanted or expected. As a bonus, kaolin clay is nice in soap.

 

[AliOop]

I think they are very pretty! Maybe not what you wanted or expected, but no one else besides your SMF friends need to know that.

 

[Elise]

@AliOop @dibbles You're right, they don't like so bad. And it is also my lesson to try anything new on a smaller batch scale. I was too excited to try my new tall and skinny mold.
Thank you to everyone that shared thoughts, experiences and did research on manganese violet. Also, talking about it helped to sooth my disappointment
I hope this post and your answers will help someone else some day.

 

[not_ally]

I hope this post and your answers will help someone else some day.

I'm sure it will. That is one of the reasons I love this place so much, so many answers, so freely given. To the degree I am a decent soaper it is largely because of this forum.

 

[BritS]

I, too, once fell victim to the beautiful color of manganese violet. It was on sale, and I thought “score!” Once I read more into it, I realized I’d only be able to use it for bath bombs, which I no longer make.

 

[akseattle]

I have looked at manganese violet before - TKB trading notes that it is “not stable in cold process soap” Manganese Violet
The part on the outside might not have reacted as much with the lye.

@Vicki C and @ Mobjack Bay - wow, I had no idea!

Keeping in my that I'm not a chemist,..... - "Manganese violet is ammonium manganese-(III) pyrophosphate with the formula of MnNH4P2O7. The pigment is destroyed by strong acids and alkalis. It is resistant to heat up to 250 °C and has excellent stability to light." My web search reminded me that manganese is a transition metal that changes color depending on the oxidation state. See this source - "Like other transition metals, manganese has more than one common oxidation state. The most stable is +2, which is a pale pink color in aqueous solutions. Also important is +4, brown/black, which is found in manganese dioxide; and +7 found in the purple permanganate anion MnO4–. Manganese’s +6 oxidation state is green." Perhaps the manganese in the outer part of your soap is at +2?

@Mobjack Bay, that's funny, cuz you seem a little bit like a chemist to me ! Maybe somewhere in your gene pool? I seriously will need to read this many times for it to all sink in..

Manganese violet pigment powder and mica made with manganese violet as an ingredient are not the same thing. To create the bright colors of lab-created micas, pigment is applied to the mica substrate using heat. (source) In other words, the mica particles are coated with the pigment. With so many of us successfully using micas made with manganese violet for years, I think we can assume that the process used by trusted manufacturers makes manganese violet chemically stable in cold process soap.

@Mobjack Bay , one more thing to have to remember and watch out for ....

 

[Mobjack Bay]

@akseattle I took plenty of chemistry courses way back when. Unfortunately I was not as interested in chemistry then as I am now.

If you stick with soap colorants tested in cp soap by reputable suppliers, you won't have to worry, or learn any chemistry.

 

[akseattle]

@Mobjack Bay , yes, sometimes having an actual NEED to know can really make subject matter come alive. Someone needs to offer an online class called “chemistry for soap makers.” If you happen to know of one , let me know!!

 

[akseattle]

I, too, once fell victim to the beautiful color of manganese violet. It was on sale, and I thought “score!” Once I read more into it, I realized I’d only be able to use it for bath bombs, which I no longer make.

How about coming up with a nice melt and pour recipe and making some beautiful purple soaps? No problem with manganese violet there!!