Preservatives

[Dahila]

http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/
Lankan please read it, this page is the one you can rely on, The do testing on all products
"
Trade name(s) of preservative: Naticide

INCI name: fragrance/parfum

Usage and phase: 1% Cool down

Works within pH range: below pH 5

Natural or synthetic? Natural

Protects against:

– gram positive bacteria? Poor

– gram negative bacteria? Poor

– mould? No

Further details: Very expensive and has a vanilla/almond scent. Many users report irritation. "
There is a lot to desire from suppliers post and huge difference when tested ,

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Zany with all due respect, your posts are unwise. Please do not say that it does not need preservation.

Dahila, I totally respect your decision to use a preservative in your liquid soap. I do not. I hope we can agree to disagree. Based on my knowledge and 15 years experience, I stand by my statement that fully saponified liquid soap requires no preservative. There are many large commercial and home-based manufacturers of liquid soap that do not add preservatives to their products. Different strokes for different folks, yes?

 

[Saltwater Scented]

Anything that contains water and a source of nutrients will be colonized by microorganisms. The deepest mines in the world have bacteria growing within the pores of solid rock. Yellowstone's color patterns in the hot springs and geysers are bacteria growing in the equivalent of boiling battery acid.

Mine drainage that is 12+ in pH and has levels of lead, mercury, and arsenic that are beyond a doubt deadly to any terrestrial organisms has bacteria growing in it.

Soap, regardless of level of saponification, is a colonizable substrate. The health effects of that colonization is dependent on the organism but it is most definitely a viable substrate.

 

[Susie]

I think some of you folks arguing against the use of preservatives misunderstand why some of us would not sell without using a preservative. I would only use a preservative to discourage a lawsuit. Not because it is necessary to the safety of the soap, it isn't. But an attorney should take one look at the label, see the preservative, and tell the client that the maker (me) did everything possible to prevent growth of nasties, and not take the case. That's what should happen. Not that it will, but then you hopefully have a judge that has good sense and throws it out for the same reason.

 

[Dahila]

Dahila, I totally respect your decision to use a preservative in your liquid soap. I do not. I hope we can agree to disagree. Based on my knowledge and 15 years experience, I stand by my statement that fully saponified liquid soap requires no preservative. There are many large commercial and home-based manufacturers of liquid soap that do not add preservatives to their products. Different strokes for different folks, yes?

I am ok with it, Zany but if you never tested your soaps, you have not idea what is in it, I remember Susie had mold grown on paste . Hard to believe cause ph is so high, have a good weekend

 

[cmzaha]

The other issue is most if not all insurance will not cover mold, and as I have mentioned I have had mold grow in LS and in Cream Soap. I do make my products in all sanitized containers, utensils covered countertops, etc. So everything is as clean as it can be in a non-sterile room. So I will not even consider selling with no preservative and I also will not use products without preservative due to my eczema problems.

 

[Saltwater Scented]

The other issue is most if not all insurance will not cover mold, and as I have mentioned I have had mold grow in LS and in Cream Soap. I do make my products in all sanitized containers, utensils covered countertops, etc. So everything is as clean as it can be in a non-sterile room. So I will not even consider selling with no preservative and I also will not use products without preservative due to my eczema problems.

I work in property claims in insurance. I can tell you that for personal property, i.e. anything you take with you when you sell your home, we have zero coverage for mold. Most homeowners and rental property policies out there have zero coverage for personal property affected by mold. Some will cover it if the personal property was first damaged by water and then had mold colonizing it. Others will see mold and scratch that off the list for coverage immediately. There are some companies that will allow you to add on an endorsement (rider) to you policy for mold but the cost is substantial. Most states have very little coverage for mold, if any at all. For the most part, you have enough to cover the pre-remediation testing, post remediation testing/clearance, and maybe a $1000.00 left over for the actual mold to be remediated.

The premise for no mold coverage, from an underwriting perspective, is that mold is easily preventable if you maintain your residence. Let a little water leak go for a few weeks because it seems like it is only dripping here and there is a huge mistake. Now you have $43,000.00 mold remediation estimate?

All we have for you is $2500.00, subject to your $2000.00 deductible because that's the sole source of damage. Would you like that $500.00 as a direct deposit or a printed check for record keeping purposes?

That's the news I had to give someone yesterday afternoon. It's the worst, absolute worst, part of my job.

 

[cmzaha]

I have my insurance through the Guild and it Does Not cover mold in cosmetic products.

 

[Dahila]

I have my insurance through the Guild and it Does Not cover mold in cosmetic products.

No insurance will cover mold in cosmetics what is also important you need to do testing in case of claim as soon as testing fells , the maker is responsible of exposing people to danger, I can not imagine why people do buy products without preservation. We have such easy access to information. I on my side do a lot of educating my customers. Emphasis on safety first, In like 5 year I am on market I had one person who did not buy my lotion due preservation.
Carolyn you can wake me up in middle of night and I can make my speech about it.
I can not imagine us with eczema and atopic dermatitis to use something unpreserved

 

[Susie]

No insurance will cover mold in cosmetics what is also important you need to do testing in case of claim as soon as testing fells , the maker is responsible of exposing people to danger, I can not imagine why people do buy products without preservation. We have such easy access to information. I on my side do a lot of educating my customers. Emphasis on safety first, In like 5 year I am on market I had one person who did not buy my lotion due preservation.
Carolyn you can wake me up in middle of night and I can make my speech about it.
I can not imagine us with eczema and atopic dermatitis to use something unpreserved

I have/had those, and part of my issue was that the preservatives were part of the cause. Hence my continued non use of preservatives in my liquid soap. I only use it for friends and family, and everyone now knows how to dilute the paste. I send it to them in 8 oz packages of paste, which forces them to make fresh long before any danger of yuckies growing.

By the way, the nasties were not on my paste, they were in a bottle of diluted soap that was over 2 years (almost 3) old.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

The premise for no mold coverage, from an underwriting perspective, is that mold is easily preventable if you maintain your residence.

Good input. Thanks, Saltwater.

I'm thinking "mold is easily preventable" must be true for homemade B & B products as well. This reminds me of the time I made a small batch of lotion -- three 16 oz pump containers -- one for me, one for my friend Nancy the Nurse, and one for Nancy's friend.

Six months later, both Nancy and I were down to our last little bit of lotion, when her friend returned hers - a still-full container, with a half-dollar size ring of black hairy mold around the stem. It looked like it hadn't been used at all. The clear shoulder area of the container had condensation. That gave me the clue to solve the mystery of how it happened.

I quickly surmised that the bottle had most likely been kept (& forgotten?) in direct sunlight, either in her car or on a kitchen or bathroom shelf (?) near a window -- causing the lotion to heat up beyond the preservative's temperature limits... thus causing condensation to form and flow down the stem and create the mold.

I happily replaced the lotion with a fresh one. Customer was happy too. No worries.

 

[cmzaha]

Susie, I do respect your decision to not using preservative, and thank goodness we still have the right to make decisions, and using unpreserved is certainly your choice to make. But I would not risk giving it away to even family or friends. It would still make you liable. Ask me what wonderful family can do.

Bacteria loves to get into any lesion, including little bug bites and wreak havoc. I have seen first hand what Sespis can do.

 

[Saltwater Scented]

Good input. Thanks, Saltwater.
View attachment 41258

I'm thinking "mold is easily preventable" must be true for homemade B & B products as well.

It is; use a preservative. I'm not sure how to put this plainly, but please consider if your product has grown mold already you're putting people's lives at risk. What if someone with a compromised immune system used your product at the home of the friend who had the mold growth? If a type 1 diabetic used it without seeing any evidence of a colonization it could lead to quite horrible results.

As someone mentioned earlier, you don't see the growth on food that gives you food poisoning. There could be bacterial colonization within the product that no one ever sees. Or perhaps a child uses an old liquid soap from under a sink that the parents have forgotten and doesn't recognize the contamination?

This thread would be hard for your criminal and civil defense attorney to overcome against a charge of willful and gross negligence.

 

[Lankan]

http://makingskincare.com/preservatives/
Lankan please read it, this page is the one you can rely on, The do testing on all products
"
Trade name(s) of preservative: Naticide

INCI name: fragrance/parfum

Usage and phase: 1% Cool down

Works within pH range: below pH 5

Natural or synthetic? Natural

Protects against:

– gram positive bacteria? Poor

– gram negative bacteria? Poor

– mould? No

Further details: Very expensive and has a vanilla/almond scent. Many users report irritation. "
There is a lot to desire from suppliers post and huge difference when tested ,

Thanks for the link, very informative. By the way according to wiki, DMDMH is the preservative sold as Glydant.

 

[Dahila]

Thanks for the link, very informative. By the way according to wiki, DMDMH is the preservative sold as Glydant.

Had they done any testing? Read a bit about cosmetic formulators on "Making skincare" I also recommend Mark Fuller.

 

[Dahila]

Good input. Thanks, Saltwater.
View attachment 41258

I'm thinking "mold is easily preventable" must be true for homemade B & B products as well. This reminds me of the time I made a small batch of lotion -- three 16 oz pump containers -- one for me, one for my friend Nancy the Nurse, and one for Nancy's friend.

Six months later, both Nancy and I were down to our last little bit of lotion, when her friend returned hers - a still-full container, with a half-dollar size ring of black hairy mold around the stem. It looked like it hadn't been used at all. The clear shoulder area of the container had condensation. That gave me the clue to solve the mystery of how it happened.

I quickly surmised that the bottle had most likely been kept (& forgotten?) in direct sunlight, either in her car or on a kitchen or bathroom shelf (?) near a window -- causing the lotion to heat up beyond the preservative's temperature limits... thus causing condensation to form and flow down the stem and create the mold.

I happily replaced the lotion with a fresh one. Customer was happy too. No worries.

One of my control batches are exposed to extreme conditions, hot weather and direct son , cold weather and others, my 5 years old control lotions are still good , Preservation is a key

 

[Zany_in_CO]

It is; use a preservative. I'm not sure how to put this plainly, but please consider if your product has grown mold already you're putting people's lives at risk.

You're preaching to the choir there, Sweet Pea. The product was lotion (not LS) which requires a preservative. That preservative becomes compromised when left in sunlight or near some other heat source. And for 6 months?!!! GAH! My wholesale customers are aware of this and keep their stash in a cooler under the sales table with one bottle available for testing.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Deleted. Double post.

 

[Lankan]

Had they done any testing? Read a bit about cosmetic formulators on "Making skincare" I also recommend Mark Fuller.

I checked their website, Glydant is claimed to be used in personal care products for decades. it also states I has ultra low levels of for formaldehyde content (<0.09%) thereby avoiding the H350 phrase in Europe.

Clause H350 stands for for "May Cause Cancer". Although it is claimed to be ultra low, the formaldehyde is considered as "known to be a human carcinogen" by the US National Toxicology Program.

I tend to conclude this may not be a preservative I would want to use, neither any of us in the community

 

[DeeAnna]

Problem is that formaldehyde is naturally present in some foods -- apples and other fruits, meat, fish, and some vegetables for example -- in higher concentrations than in products preserved with formaldehyde-producing preservatives.

It's absolutely your choice to not use a formaldehyde-producing preservative, and I'm not trying to tell you otherwise. It's important, however, to understand this issue in a realistic context.

Also, what the manufacturer's say about the efficacy of their preservatives can be wildly different than the performance of these preservatives in the real world. Manufacturers tend to overstate the efficacy, especially of their so-called natural preservatives. It's important to verify these claims with independent sources of real life testing before relying on manufacturer's claims.