Preservative ini liquid soap

[Ruth]

Do I need preservative in my liquid soap with HEC thickening?

 

[cmzaha]

I do and from what I have read recently thickeners, such as cellulose, are bug food

 

[lsg]

I always use preservative in my diluted liquid soap no matter what I use to thicken it. I do the same for shampoo and body washes. Why take a chance?

 

[Ruth]

What's kind of preservative?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Fully saponified soap requires no preservative. Others are free to disagree. Different strokes for different folks! I've been making LS for 13 years. Never had a problem.

 

[Susie]

I don't use preservatives, either, but:

1. I do not sell. If I sold, I would use preservatives.
2. I do not thicken mine, if I did, I would use preservative.

I do not know which preservative they use.

 

[Ruth]

If don't use preservative how long the soap best to use?

 

[gloopygloop]

I have never used a preservative and have not had any problem with spoilage, i also don't sell & probably would if I did. I imagine if the pH is around 10 then this should be enough to stop a lot of bugs. If using a preservative though I think something like Suttocide or its equivalent is used as it copes with a high pH and is more water soluble.

 

[lsg]

You might want to read this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42659
I use liquid Germall Plus as my preservative.

 

[gloopygloop]

You might want to read this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42659
I use liquid Germall Plus as my preservative.

I have never made cream soap and so cannot speak for that but have never had a problem with my LS and I have kept some back for a couple of years to see what happens and it has been fine, not rancid or mouldy. I did get rancid once when I had made using all water method and no glycerine, it smelled rancid after a couple of months, could be that there was a problem in my method at that time as it was early on I'm my soaping days.

 

[gloopygloop]

You might want to read this thread: http://www.soapmakingforum.com/showthread.php?t=42659
I use liquid Germall Plus as my preservative.

Germall Plus appears to be only useful from pH 3 to 8 and LS is usually higher than that unless of course you are lowering the pH with citric or lactic acid or the like. Suttocide will be effective with a higher pH I believe up to pH12 ish.

 

[DeeAnna]

Off-label recommendation by cosmetic microbiologist -- Liquid Germall Plus is effective to pH 10. That's why it is suggested as an alternative to Suttocide. Glydant Plus is now another option. Source: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/

 

[gloopygloop]

Off-label recommendation by cosmetic microbiologist -- Liquid Germall Plus is effective to pH 10. That's why it is suggested as an alternative to Suttocide. Glydant Plus is now another option. Source: http://www.makingskincare.com/preservatives/

I had read that too DeeAnna but not being an official statement I wouldn't feel comfortable going with it if I were choosing a preservative unless my own cosmetic Analyst had personally recommended such on my certificate which is why I would chooses Suttocide as a personal choice just to cover my you know what.

 

[DeeAnna]

If you're in a country that requires safety assessments -- you didn't say where you live -- then by all means follow the rules. For those of us who don't have that requirement, Liquid Germall Plus is certainly an option to consider.

 

[gloopygloop]

If you're in a country that requires safety assessments -- you didn't say where you live -- then by all means follow the rules. For those of us who don't have that requirement, Liquid Germall Plus is certainly an option to consider.

Yes it must help not having to conform rules and regs, I am in the UK so of course it is essential if one wishes to sell which I don't, even so I still would rather stick to guide lines from the manufacturer than a more loose quote which may or may not be true, but having said that I am sure that GP works fine it is just a matter of covering oneself and that feeling that you have done the right thing by what is recommended by the actual manufacturer. As I said i don't use one at all! and have not had problems. I think the original poster mentioned it was cream soap that had gone bad, it might be a different animal compared to LS I really don't know not having made cream soap., it is all a learning curve which is what makes soaping so interesting.

 

[Susie]

I had a bottle of diluted soap that lasted almost three years before I saw ickies growing in it. I dilute only a small amount of paste, enough to last about a month, at the time. The paste lives in the fridge so I don't lose it.

 

[lsg]

I have kept my paste in the refrigerator too, Susie. That works well to dilute just what you need at the time.

 

[cmzaha]

I agree that the paste does not need to be preserved, but once LS is diluted you are talking a lot of extra water. I have had both diluted LS and cream soap grow mold. I know preserve both and have never had any further problems. Better safe than sorry in my opinion

 

[DeeAnna]

Some makers will dilute liquid soap to a modest % of actual soap and then thicken it with HEC, HPMC or other thickener. I think this increases the risk of microbial growth compared with liquid soap that has the desired thickness just by dilution with water only -- the % of actual soap is usually higher (not always, but often) and you're not adding additional organic material.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

If don't use preservative how long the soap best to use?

This is just me, but I don't worry about shelf life with LS any more than I worry about shelf life with bar soap. Maybe it's because of the ROE and vitamin E I add to my oils, or possibly the essential oils, some of which are known to have "preservative qualities".

SHORT STORY:
I was purging my B & B supply cabinets the other day when I came across a 4-oz, sealed, bottle of shampoo made in 2007 that I forgot I had. It is my favorite shampoo -- flaxseed oil with 10% coconut and 10% rosin. I took the seal off, gave it a sniff, and, since it smelled fresh, I used it to wash my hair. No worries.

NOTE: ROSIN saponifies much like an oil but without any resulting glycerin. It gives a smooth cold cream finish to the lather and also acts as a detergent and preservative. Calculate - Rosin has the same SAP value as Wheat Germ Oil. (NOTE: May cause contact dermatitis in sensitive individuals).

I know many soapers I respect use preservative, and that's their choice. But it makes no sense to me. Before I learned to make soap, I tried a few so-called "natural" shampoos on the market -- Jason, Avalon, etc. If I remember correctly, they contained a preservative and they always smelled funky after about 6 months. Ugh. Plus, there is no preservative specifically formulated for lye-based liquid soap. Why would there be? As an alkaline product, i.e., nasties don't survive in an alkaline environment, why waste the money?

On the other hand, Dr. Bronner's liquid soap has been around since the hippie days and contains no preservative, zero, zip, none, nada. That's the liquid soap I aspire to. Also, some of the largest manufacturers on the groups I've been a member of always pipe up during this topic to say they never use preservative.

As for the "rather safe than sorry" argument for using a preservative, I could use the same argument for NOT using preservative. I've read enough about what can happen when a preservative is introduced into a non-compatible environment to have the same fear!

Just my take on it. 'Nuff said.