Possibly unorthodox shampoo bar

[Tara_H]

This may be a strange request for feedback since I've already made this and I like it, but the world of syndets is still a bit new and scary to me so I'd like either some reassurance or a nudge in the right direction here.

This recipe originated when my mum was visiting - I'd promised her we'd make a variety of different scented shampoo bars since that's what she was most interested in, and I'd ordered in a bunch of supplies in advance. The problem was, I got my wires crossed when ordering, and ended up with tons of SLSA, but only enough SCI for one batch of the recipe I'd planned to use.

I did some very hasty research and reformulating and ended up with the recipe below. The Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate I had on hand for making toothpaste but it seemed to be at least not contraindicated for hair also. I was concerned that the high level of SLSA might be too stripping so I added a small amount of BTMS and shea butter to try to offset that.

As it turned out, I really liked the result! Mum prefers the more stripping one since she was paranoid that her hair was looking oily with this recipe (even though it wasn't) but she has much finer hair than mine, and it worked really well for me since I tend to need tons of conditioner anyway.

I've reached the point where I'm out of shampoo bars and need to make a new one, but as I mentioned I'm not at all sure about the recipe from a conceptual point of view since I haven't seen a similar one anywhere. Particularly if I'm doing something stupidly redundant or unnecessarily expensive I'd like to hear it before I settle in to making a whole batch!

The recipe itself (for one smallish bar):
SLSA 30g (60%)
Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate 10g (20%)
BTMS 5g (10%)
Shea Butter 3g (6%)
Fragrance 2g (4%)

 

[Tara_H]

That bad, eh?

Not sure if I should interpret the silence as "it's clearly fine, what's she fretting about" or "I don't want to be the first to tell her it's utter madness"...

 

[Babyshoes]

That bad, eh?

Not sure if I should interpret the silence as "it's clearly fine, what's she fretting about" or "I don't want to be the first to tell her it's utter madness"...

In my case, it's "this is interesting but I have no idea what half those ingredients are..."

What I can do is comment to push the thread to the top of the "recent posts" list for you.

 

[SideDoorSoaps]

This may be a strange request for feedback since I've already made this and I like it, but the world of syndets is still a bit new and scary to me so I'd like either some reassurance or a nudge in the right direction here.

This recipe originated when my mum was visiting - I'd promised her we'd make a variety of different scented shampoo bars since that's what she was most interested in, and I'd ordered in a bunch of supplies in advance. The problem was, I got my wires crossed when ordering, and ended up with tons of SLSA, but only enough SCI for one batch of the recipe I'd planned to use.

I did some very hasty research and reformulating and ended up with the recipe below. The Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate I had on hand for making toothpaste but it seemed to be at least not contraindicated for hair also. I was concerned that the high level of SLSA might be too stripping so I added a small amount of BTMS and shea butter to try to offset

The recipe itself (for one smallish bar):
SLSA 30g (60%)
Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate 10g (20%)
BTMS 5g (10%)
Shea Butter 3g (6%)
Fragrance 2g (4%)

How’s the lather? I’m interested in the foaming action of the Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate. It does have a higher pH. Did you test yours?

Shampoo bars are a chemistry experiment all in itself. Have you read anything on SwiftCraftyMonkey? Pages and pages of reading - most behind a small paywall. Oh and I like to read the Chemists corner. Sometimes I understand the stuff lol

For personal use I don’t add a preservative but some people do.

 

[violets2217]

I’m not much help, only because I’m not a formulater but a recipe follower! But I found this article:

Why Is Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate In My Product? - The Dermatology Review

And the sodium lauroyl sarcosinate it say is recommended usage at 15%. But I’m surprised your mom didn’t like it because it’s supposed to be good in shampoo to absorb and easily rinse away oils…
Also… I’m going to tag @Quanta … she’s alway been quite helpful with my shampoo bar questions. Very knowledgeable she is!

 

[Tara_H]

How’s the lather? I’m interested in the foaming action of the Sodium Lauroyl Sarcosinate. It does have a higher pH. Did you test yours?

Shampoo bars are a chemistry experiment all in itself. Have you read anything on SwiftCraftyMonkey? Pages and pages of reading - most behind a small paywall. Oh and I like to read the Chemists corner. Sometimes I understand the stuff lol

For personal use I don’t add a preservative but some people do.

The lather is great - I liked everything about these bars except that maybe they for used up just a tiny bit faster than would be ideal (maybe sure to the slightly high level of sodium lauroyl sarcosinate). Other than that they were basically just what I'm looking for in a shampoo bar. I wasn't setting out to formulate a new recipe, it was just the emergent circumstances which led to making the changes, so I haven't done a ton of research in general. But certainly it seems to be a fairly unusual ingredient and I'm not sure if there's a reason for that which should give me pause.

sodium lauroyl sarcosinate it say is recommended usage at 15%. But I’m surprised your mom didn’t like it because it’s supposed to be good in shampoo to absorb and easily rinse away oils…

Thanks for the article! Very interesting
I suspect the reason mum didn't like it is because of the extra conditioning ingredients I had added; I think she would normally use a lot less conditioner than I would, and that the extra-conditioned feel read as oily to her.

Oh, yes and pH wise I'm afraid I didn't test it... I have some strips but I never think to use them after finding out they're not very sensitive, and I bought a pH meter with probes ages ago but it was a cheapish one and I never trusted the readings from it, they seemed all over the place (on soil samples, which is what I got it for).

 

[Peachy Clean Soap]

I couldn't suggest any valuable info, Ive never made shampoo bars.

 

[AliOop]

Sorry I missed this post earlier - have been super busy lately and not checking in as often. I so appreciate that you shared your experience since I'm always curious about shampoo bars and ingredients. I'd never heard of SL-sarconsinate, so I did a little digging. Here is one article that specifically mentions it as a desirable shampoo ingredient:

https://www.truthinaging.com/ingredients/sodium-lauroyl-sarcosinate
Per that article, the main concerns appear to be the ability to serve as a penetration enhancer, and the possibility of contamination with nitrosamine (a carcinogenic compound).

Here is another one from the Honest company that explains why they believe it gentle enough for toothpaste, and the fact that they use a nitrosamine-free version of SL-sarcosinate:

https://www.truthinaging.com/ingredients/sodium-lauroyl-sarcosinate
I also logged in to Swifty Crafty Monkey to see if she had anything to say about it, and she sure does! Here is a quick quote:

As a note, someone asked if they could use powdered sodium lauroyl sarcosinate in a shampoo bar, and I said, sure, why not? But check the pH!

I’ve just written a longer post on this surfactant, but the quick summary is that sodium cocoyl or lauroyl sarcosinate, a lovely surfactant derived from proteins, has a very rich and creamy foam and lather with good bubbles. It’s substantive to skin, meaning it offers conditioning properties, and rinses off well. The pH is 7.5 to 8.5, so you’ll have to reduce it to below 5.5 to have it thicken. It’s a very mild cleanser that won’t make skin feel tight or dry after rinsing, and it’s often used as a secondary surfactant in combination with something else. It’s anionic or negatively charged, so it works with a non-ionic surfactant like Olivem 1000. You can totally use this in a product like a creamy cleanser.

If you aren't a $1/mo SCM blog member, I highly recommend joining so you can read her posts on this and other ingredients, since she goes into great detail about how to use it, and with what. She mentions the high pH and recommends bringing it down (other posts in the blog will tell you how to do that).

Bottom line, I wouldn't be super concerned about using it in your shampoo bar, as long as your stuff is nitrosamine-free, and you do eventually check for the final pH of your product to ensure that it's not too high. I'd love to hear more reports as you continue to investigate and use this product!

 

[BWt]

Sorry I missed this post earlier - have been super busy lately and not checking in as often. I so appreciate that you shared your experience since I'm always curious about shampoo bars and ingredients. I'd never heard of SL-sarconsinate, so I did a little digging. Here is one article that specifically mentions it as a desirable shampoo ingredient:

https://www.truthinaging.com/ingredients/sodium-lauroyl-sarcosinate
Per that article, the main concerns appear to be the ability to serve as a penetration enhancer, and the possibility of contamination with nitrosamine (a carcinogenic compound).

Here is another one from the Honest company that explains why they believe it gentle enough for toothpaste, and the fact that they use a nitrosamine-free version of SL-sarcosinate:

https://www.truthinaging.com/ingredients/sodium-lauroyl-sarcosinate
I also logged in to Swifty Crafty Monkey to see if she had anything to say about it, and she sure does! Here is a quick quote:

As a note, someone asked if they could use powdered sodium lauroyl sarcosinate in a shampoo bar, and I said, sure, why not? But check the pH!

I’ve just written a longer post on this surfactant, but the quick summary is that sodium cocoyl or lauroyl sarcosinate, a lovely surfactant derived from proteins, has a very rich and creamy foam and lather with good bubbles. It’s substantive to skin, meaning it offers conditioning properties, and rinses off well. The pH is 7.5 to 8.5, so you’ll have to reduce it to below 5.5 to have it thicken. It’s a very mild cleanser that won’t make skin feel tight or dry after rinsing, and it’s often used as a secondary surfactant in combination with something else. It’s anionic or negatively charged, so it works with a non-ionic surfactant like Olivem 1000. You can totally use this in a product like a creamy cleanser.

If you aren't a $1/mo SCM blog member, I highly recommend joining so you can read her posts on this and other ingredients, since she goes into great detail about how to use it, and with what. She mentions the high pH and recommends bringing it down (other posts in the blog will tell you how to do that).

Bottom line, I wouldn't be super concerned about using it in your shampoo bar, as long as your stuff is nitrosamine-free, and you do eventually check for the final pH of your product to ensure that it's not too high. I'd love to hear more reports as you continue to investigate and use this product!

Thank you for mentioning SCM. Did not know about this site. Love to learn about ingredients.

 

[AliOop]

Thank you for mentioning SCM. Did not know about this site. Love to learn about ingredients.

The $1 per month subscription is more than enough for me, as I use the site mostly to learn about ingredients, as well.