Pomace vs. Grade A vs. Virgin

[DWinMadison]

I looked at pomace but decided to stick with regular OO since I can get it locally with no wait and no shipping cost. Every time I go to the grocery I breeze by the baking aisle to check for oils on sale and the Rx to look for marked down castor. As much as I like evoo for cooking, not so much for soap. I can leave a slight residual odor in finished soap and can slightly darken or discolor whiter soaps at least in my experience. Would I use it if it was on super sale? Absolutely.

I did recently order palm kernal to use instead of regular palm. That should be interesting as they score quite differently on soapcalc.net

Hardness Cleansing Conditioning Bubbly Creamy
29 - 54 12 - 22 44 - 69 14 - 46 16 – 48
Palm Kernal 75 65 18 65 10
Palm Oil 50 1 49 1 49

 

[Susie]

REAL virgin olive oil is almost impossible to find in the U.S. 70% or more is fake or diluted. And if you do it's crazy expensive and you won't want to use it in soap. There is a big (mafia) scam diluting evoo with other oils. Trust me, you are not using olive oil in your soaps if you buy it cheap.

http://www.foodrenegade.com/how-tell-if-your-olive-oil-fake/

At least with pomace you know it's olive oil. Yes, the solvent is an issue.

Did you happen to read that article all the way through? It is selling you olive oil. Which makes them instantly less than trustworthy. And let's be honest here, unless you grow the olives/pigs/cows/coconuts/shea/mangoes/etc and process the oil yourself, you really only get to trust that what you are buying is what it actually says on the label.

I use the cheap yellow olive oil from Sam's now. I have used every grade of olive oil that I have accessible locally and even some from online. I like the soap from the cheap Sam's stuff best.

 

[judymoody]

Costco (Kirtland brand) grade A OO consistently comes back as unadulterated in testing and it's relatively affordable.

 

[LunaSkye]

I did recently order on palm kernal to use instead of regular palm. That should be interesting as they score quite differently on soapcalc.net

Hardness Cleansing Conditioning Bubbly Creamy Iodine INS
Oil 29 - 54 12 - 22 44 - 69 14 - 46 16 - 48 41 - 70 136 - 165
Palm Kernal 75 65 18 65 10 20 227
Palm Oil 50 1 49 1 49 53 145

Palm kernel and PO are used for different reasons. Palm kernal can be used in place of CO for most recipes whereas PO is used to make a harder soap among other things.

 

[smeetree]

Did you happen to read that article all the way through? It is selling you olive oil. Which makes them instantly less than trustworthy. And let's be honest here, unless you grow the olives/pigs/cows/coconuts/shea/mangoes/etc and process the oil yourself, you really only get to trust that what you are buying is what it actually says on the label.

I use the cheap yellow olive oil from Sam's now. I have used every grade of olive oil that I have accessible locally and even some from online. I like the soap from the cheap Sam's stuff best.

Think about it: we have massive inflation worldwide. Olives are very hard to process, only grow in select regions, and do not have high yearly output. To believe you can buy a gallon on Amazon for $40 (look up the "baja precious" brand of evoo) is naive. Simple economics says they have to be diluted with cheaper oils (usually soybean oil, which is extracted via solvents). Saying the article is untrustworthy because they try to sell you real olive oil is pretty cynical, though I do agree it's smart to question sources. But there are many papers out there and other studies that show the dilution without trying to sell you oil. Here you go. Google it.

http://www.perkinelmer.com/PDFs/downloads/APP_Olive_Oil_Adult_with_Soybean_Oil.pdf

What you're doing seems like classic "shoot the messenger" where you're getting chippy with me because you don't want to admit you're buying adulterated oils with solvents in them. I am simply trying to inform people.

And yes, I use pomace for these reasons. At least with pomace I know what it is so I can create a more exact recipe.

 

[DWinMadison]

Palm kernel and PO are used for different reasons. Palm kernal can be used in place of CO for most recipes whereas PO is used to make a harder soap among other things.

Clearly, based on the scores. I had wondered if anyone has tried a palm/palm kernal/castor recipe and if so, what the outcome was.

 

[Susie]

Think about it: we have massive inflation worldwide. Olives are very hard to process, only grow in select regions, and do not have high yearly output. To believe you can buy a gallon on Amazon for $40 (look up the "baja precious" brand of evoo) is naive. Simple economics says they have to be diluted with cheaper oils (usually soybean oil, which is extracted via solvents). Saying the article is untrustworthy because they try to sell you real olive oil is pretty cynical, though I do agree it's smart to question sources. But there are many papers out there and other studies that show the dilution without trying to sell you oil. Here you go. Google it.

http://www.perkinelmer.com/PDFs/downloads/APP_Olive_Oil_Adult_with_Soybean_Oil.pdf

What you're doing seems like classic "shoot the messenger" where you're getting chippy with me because you don't want to admit you're buying adulterated oils with solvents in them. I am simply trying to inform people.

And yes, I use pomace for these reasons. At least with pomace I know what it is so I can create a more exact recipe.

Au contraire! I simply could not care less what oil people use. I am not trying to "shoot the messenger". I am a nurse. I was trained to think critically. And the first thing I was taught was how to evaluate the veracity of information based upon the source.

I buy the oil I buy because I don't care about how they arrived at the oil, it works well in my soap, and it is very consistent. I never have to wonder if it is going to act differently(Grade A and EVOO are so very different from one bottle to the next!) I simply don't care what you use UNLESS it makes a difference in the soap. Then I do want to know what you did, what the outcome was, and why, because I might want to try that! I do, however, care a great deal when people present information from a source that has a vested(read $) interest in making people believe a certain thing as being absolute truth. And perkinelmer is selling equipment and services. So, try again.

Also, I have a complete lack of tact. If I were getting "chippy", no one would have any doubt. I simply was trying to be sure you read all the way through that article because of the question of veracity.

 

[Susie]

Here is an interesting article in Olive Oil Times covering the 2010 USDA Olive Oil standards. Has some interesting tables in it with lots of info for the sciency types among us.

http://www.oliveoiltimes.com/olive-...understanding-usda-olive-oil-standards/6320/2

 

[smeetree]

Au contraire! I simply could not care less what oil people use. I am not trying to "shoot the messenger". I am a nurse. I was trained to think critically. And the first thing I was taught was how to evaluate the veracity of information based upon the source.

I buy the oil I buy because I don't care about how they arrived at the oil, it works well in my soap, and it is very consistent. I never have to wonder if it is going to act differently(Grade A and EVOO are so very different from one bottle to the next!) I simply don't care what you use UNLESS it makes a difference in the soap. Then I do want to know what you did, what the outcome was, and why, because I might want to try that! I do, however, care a great deal when people present information from a source that has a vested(read $) interest in making people believe a certain thing as being absolute truth. And perkinelmer is selling equipment and services. So, try again.

Also, I have a complete lack of tact. If I were getting "chippy", no one would have any doubt. I simply was trying to be sure you read all the way through that article because of the question of veracity.

Oh, there is a ton of bad science out there. Buy what you wish, but if you are getting a gallon for cheap it's not pure olive oil. There is bad science but there isn't as much bad economics because the people selling that commodity are not stupid. Price is your guide. If it is super cheap it is not EVOO without solvents. The studies do show most evoo are diluted with soybean oil. Now with regard to making soap, you'd have to calculate (i.e. guess) what amount of your evoo is soybean and adjust the recipe. 10% is normal, but they could be much higher. Soybeans also are extracted with solvents, so you run into the same problems you do with pomace. For these reasons, pomace makes more sense to me. Like all of you in the thread I hate the idea of solvents, but I don't see a way around it short of buying legit evoo, which costs a fortune, or growing your own trees and pressing olives.

 

[LunaSkye]

Clearly, based on the scores. I had wondered if anyone has tried a palm/palm kernal/castor recipe and if so, what the outcome was.

Go for it!

 

[tkine]

I use Pomace with no problems. I have no problems with it tracing fast. I can swirl to my
heart's content. I can get it locally at better prices than other OOs.