Pine Tar

[Peter_Montague]

Having troubles here. I've made a dozen or so batches of cold process soap. I saw pine tar in the list of oils on the soapcalc.net lye calculator and I happened to have some pine tar so twice now I have tried to make pine tar soap and both times I end up with the lye water coming out of suspension.

Babassu Oil 112.00
Beeswax 24.00
Walnut Oil 80.00
Grapeseed Oil 40.00
Coconut Oil, 92 deg 160.00
Avocado Oil 144.00
Olive Oil 20.00 160.00
Pine Tar, lye calc only no FA 80.00
Totals 800.00

Water 304.00
Lye - NaOH 105.10

The pine tar was mixed into the oils and then the oil pine tar mixture was mixed with the lye water.

Oils were 116 and lye was 110.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

Pine tar will give you an instanta-hard soap.

Try making the batch without the pine tar, mix slowly until you get to emulsion and then add in the pine tar. Hand stir only and then mould it up quickly, because it will move very quickly indeed.

 

[Peter_Montague]

I'll give that a try. After 2 batches gone bad id rather do a batch that I know will come out right :headbanging: What caused the lye water to come out of emulsion? Would you use the stick blender as normal first and then hand mix the pine tar in? Thanks so much!

 

[DeeAnna]

The lye concentration is only 26%. That is more water than I would use for making soap by a cold process method. If you made this recipe without pine tar, I'd say it would be prone to emulsion failure and separation due to that much water. I've never had separation in pine tar soap, but then the recipes I use for pine tar soap are formulated for 30% to 33% lye concentration. This is a prime example of why using the "water as % of oils" setting is not helpful for calculating the water for a soap recipe. Start using lye concentration or water:lye ratio instead and you'll get more consistent results in your soaping.

The recipe is very high in oleic and linoleic fats as well as very high in myristic and lauric fats (the CO and babassu). This is a quirky recipe even without the pine tar which will add softness and reduce the longevity of the soap.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Having troubles here. I've made a dozen or so batches of cold process soap. I saw pine tar in the list of oils on the soapcalc.net lye calculator and I happened to have some pine tar so twice now I have tried to make pine tar soap and both times I end up with the lye water coming out of suspension;

SoapCalc says: Pine Tar, lye calc only no FA (Fatty Acids) Think of pine tar as an additive. Bring your batch to trace and add the (warmed) pine tar.

ZANY NOTES FROM MY FILES:

PINE TAR, a vegetable product, is a thick blackish brown goo with a distinctive woody scent obtained by distillation of the pine tree wood. Good quality pine tar should smell only faintly of pine trees.
SAP: 0.0431
Use Rate: 10-25% of oil weight.
You can buy Pine Tar at a local feed store.

Historically, pine tar has been used to heal wounds and to remove the scales of psoriasis, eczema, dry skin, acne and dandruff. In soap, it's also exceptionally good at removing underarm odors.

Soap with pine tar also makes an excellent pet soap. It's very soothing to their skin and tends to discourage bugs from getting on them.

Commercial pine tar soaps generally only have 3% pine tar in them which is not enough. People with psoriasis or eczema need soap with 20% pine tar in it, often curing their condition.

TIPS: Warm first in a disposable dish. Add with the oils or at light trace.

WARNING: Pine tar added to soap makes it set up in 28 seconds. Be sure you have everything ready to pour before adding it, then immediately pour it into the mold.

DO NOT DISCOUNT WATER.

Natural scent is harsh but mellows as it cures. (If you use goat's milk, be prepared to banish the soap to an unused room while it cures. The scent of milk and pine tar curing together can bring tears to your eyes!). CP takes longer to cure. Very hard bar, long-lasting, dark brown; creamy white lather; very soothing.

EO BLEND FOR LAVENDER PINE TAR SOAP

4 parts Lavandin Essential Oil
2 parts Peru Balsam Essential Oil
1 part Russian Fir Essential Oil
1 part Sweet Birch Essential Oil (optional, historically sweet birch is helpful to problem skin, but must be used with extreme caution.)

:bunny:

 

[KristaY]

When I make PT soap I use it at 15%. I mix half of my OO (warmed) with the PT. I SB all other oils & lye just to emulsion with the EO (I use tea tree). I make sure my mold is close at hand then whisk in the PT/OO mixture and work as fast as I can. Quickly pour and level. Very few additives (mostly floral fo's) move as fast as PT so mixing and pouring quickly is key. I use a 1:1.8 lye;water ratio and haven't had separation (knock on wood!).

 

[DeeAnna]

I do pretty much what Krista does. I ~don't~ recommend adding pine tar at trace to get the best results with the least amount of hassle. Here's an article with my tips on making pine tar soap: https://classicbells.com/soap/pineTarSoap.html

 

[dixiedragon]

I add my pine tar to my oils, because I like to stir it vigorously to make sure it's well blended into the mixture. I'm too lazy to math today - what percentage of pine tar did you use? I did 25% once - I don't recommend it. The soap took - LITERALLY - over a year to get firm enough to un-mold. I'd put it in an orange juice carton - (now I wonder, possibly did some acidity from the juice use up some lye, leading to softer soap?). I put it in the attic so it got plenty hot during the summer. My suggestion would be to start at 10%. I suppose you could start at 5% put that almost seems not worth the bother, lol.

 

[Angm]

SoapCalc says: Pine Tar, lye calc only no FA (Fatty Acids) Think of pine tar as an additive. Bring your batch to trace and add the (warmed) pine tar.

ZANY NOTES FROM MY FILES:

PINE TAR, a vegetable product, is a thick blackish brown goo with a distinctive woody scent obtained by distillation of the pine tree wood. Good quality pine tar should smell only faintly of pine trees.
SAP: 0.0431
Use Rate: 10-25% of oil weight.
You can buy Pine Tar at a local feed store.

Historically, pine tar has been used to heal wounds and to remove the scales of psoriasis, eczema, dry skin, acne and dandruff. In soap, it's also exceptionally good at removing underarm odors.

Soap with pine tar also makes an excellent pet soap. It's very soothing to their skin and tends to discourage bugs from getting on them.

Commercial pine tar soaps generally only have 3% pine tar in them which is not enough. People with psoriasis or eczema need soap with 20% pine tar in it, often curing their condition.

TIPS: Warm first in a disposable dish. Add with the oils or at light trace.

WARNING: Pine tar added to soap makes it set up in 28 seconds. Be sure you have everything ready to pour before adding it, then immediately pour it into the mold.

DO NOT DISCOUNT WATER.

Natural scent is harsh but mellows as it cures. (If you use goat's milk, be prepared to banish the soap to an unused room while it cures. The scent of milk and pine tar curing together can bring tears to your eyes!). CP takes longer to cure. Very hard bar, long-lasting, dark brown; creamy white lather; very soothing.

EO BLEND FOR LAVENDER PINE TAR SOAP

4 parts Lavandin Essential Oil
2 parts Peru Balsam Essential Oil
1 part Russian Fir Essential Oil
1 part Sweet Birch Essential Oil (optional, historically sweet birch is helpful to problem skin, but must be used with extreme caution.)

:bunny:

Thank you for sharing, I did not even have to ask a question.