Pine tar/charcoal soap

[Mschwartz]

I’m going to attempt a pine tar/charcoal soap. I was thinking 10% pine tar with 2 tsp charcoal PPO. I’ve read the tar makes soft bars so I was thinking a 60% lard recipe with olive, coconut, and castor making up the rest. What do you think? Thanks!

 

[AliOop]

Your recipe sounds fine. You could also use tallow instead of or blended with the lard, as it makes a slightly harder bar.

But I’m curious. What is your thought behind adding charcoal to a pine tar soap? It sounds like you haven’t tried pine tar soap before. I’d recommend making a batch without the charcoal first, and see what you think of it. Otherwise, how will you know how the pine tar affects the soap on its own, without other additives?

Just my two cents.

 

[Mschwartz]

I guess I figured pine tar is supposed to be good for skin conditions and so is charcoal so I figured why not combine the two.

 

[AliOop]

Yes, that can be tempting. But it really is better to try one new ingredient at a time. That allows you to evaluate what that specific ingredient brings to the table. Otherwise, how do you know which ingredient did what?

Also, pine tar is tricky to work with due to how fast it thickens the batter. Charcoal is also known for thickening the batter (unless you use decelerating EOs or FOs), so combining them into one recipe is a rather advanced technique. Having used both types of soap before, I'd not be inclined to mix them, at least, not for the first go-round.

Do you have any small tester molds? Try making a 1lb batch of pine tar soap, and another one of the same recipe, minus the pine tar but with the AC added. Let them both cure and see what you think. You may find that one or the other is good as-is. If not, then at least you have some experience with getting the pine tar batter into the mold. It moves pretty fast!

 

[Mschwartz]

Yes, that can be tempting. But it really is better to try one new ingredient at a time. That allows you to evaluate what that specific ingredient brings to the table. Otherwise, how do you know which ingredient did what?

Also, pine tar is tricky to work with due to how fast it thickens the batter. Charcoal is also known for thickening the batter (unless you use decelerating EOs or FOs), so combining them into one recipe is a rather advanced technique. Having used both types of soap before, I'd not be inclined to mix them, at least, not for the first go-round.

Do you have any small tester molds? Try making a 1lb batch of pine tar soap, and another one of the same recipe, minus the pine tar but with the AC added. Let them both cure and see what you think. You may find that one or the other is good as-is. If not, then at least you have some experience with getting the pine tar batter into the mold. It moves pretty fast!

That makes sense. I’m going to add the pine tar to the olive oil and get the other oils to light trace and then mix by hand with the olive oil and tar. Seems like that’s the most recommended way.

 

[The Efficacious Gentleman]

I would suggest doing it hot process, having made pine tar soap cold process and hot process! Having to squish the "batter" in to the mould with my hands in the cold process version was not fun

 

[Zany_in_CO]

If not, then at least you have some experience with getting the pine tar batter into the mold. It moves pretty fast!

I remember the first time making pine tar soap. My notes said the batch would trace in 27 seconds... and it did! LOL

I’m going to add the pine tar to the olive oil and get the other oils to light trace and then mix by hand with the olive oil and tar.

My advice is to bring the batch to light trace and then add the (warmed) pine tar. Think of it as an "additive" - it has no fatty acids or SAP value. In either case, @AliOop is spot on ... be ready to pour.

 

[HansvP]

Soap at a cooler temperature, around 37-38 degrees. I stir the pine tar in my warm oils, bring it back to 38 degrees and add the lye. Stir with a spoon and pour in the molds the moment you see your batter change from shiny to dull. Put at a cool spot, it will soap really quick.

 

[Mschwartz]

I used this recipe and brought the oils to emulsification and then added the pine tar. Used Bickmore brand. Definitely moves fast but it turned out ok. Curious with the amount of lard I used will this be soft with the pine tar? I purposely added a lot to firm it up.

 

[Zany_in_CO]

will this be soft with the pine tar?

Only time will tell. You'll be the judge of that. I'm glad it turned out okay for you.

 

[Catscankim]

If you think you are ready to pour, you waited too long LOL.

I used AC in my pine tar soap using lard, which is very forgiving as far as pour times go. I got lucky I guess, but I definitely noticed the difference as I was pouring, it was setting up QUICK. Good luck!!

The AC made a really beautiful black soap though.

 

[DeeAnna]

PT soap is usually physically softer and shorter lived than the same recipe without PT. A large % of lard and/or tallow helps, though. I once made a PT soap with this recipe because I had a lot of tallow I wanted to use up --

Castor Bean Oil 5%
Pine tar 10%
Coconut Oil 10%
Tallow 25%
Lard 50%

-- and the large amount of tallow with no oleic fat went too far in the other direction. The soap was too hard and too insoluble. IMO, I should have dropped the tallow to 10-15% and added a modest amount of a high oleic oil.

I usually make something more like this --

Avocado Oil 5%
Pine tar 10%
Coconut Oil 12%
Sunflower, high oleic 18%
Lard 55%

The avocado and sunflower can be replaced with olive or any other high oleic fat.

 

[Mschwartz]

 

[AliOop]

Great job! Looks nice and smooth.

 

[DeeAnna]

It's interesting to me to see the variation in color for PT soap. Mine has always been a deep blackish brown (10% PT), but other people's PT soap turns out more of a medium brown like yours. I assume the color varies some because PT is often made from wood scraps which aren't going to be 100% consistent, but I don't know that for a fact.

 

[Mschwartz]

It's interesting to me to see the variation in color for PT soap. Mine has always been a deep blackish brown (10% PT), but other people's PT soap turns out more of a medium brown like yours. I assume the color varies some because PT is often made from wood scraps which aren't going to be 100% consistent, but I don't know that for a fact.

I used Bickmore brand which is way more fluid than others. It also says 100% pure light pine tar on the can. When I bought some for my horses it was the brand withe yellow horse shoe. That stuff was like roofing tar so maybe that’s the difference?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

Mine has always been a deep blackish brown (10% PT),

Mine too -- I buy this one locally Pine Tar. Use rate: 20% because my research indicated that to be the optimum % for eczema, psoriasis, dandruff. My wholesale customer in Alabama sold it "under the table" -- mostly to their black customers. I sent a batch to my Mom and a few friends in assisted living in Phoenix. The feedback wasn't all that great. Mom's friends were underwhelmed.

 

[DeeAnna]

20% because my research indicated that to be the optimum % for eczema, psoriasis, dandruff...

Yanno, I've heard other people say to use PT at 20% because this is supposedly the recommended amount to use for therapeutic purposes. But no one has ever provided the reasons why this number is supposed to be the optimum. And, believe me, I have looked for years to find the rationale behind this number.

I've also looked into the PT content of commercial soaps, such as Grandpa's Pine Tar soap. Assuming the ingredients list is correctly written in descending order by weight, pine tar is lower in the list than glycerin. If the glycerin in this soap is due to saponification only, it will be roughly 9% by weight after the soap is cured, assuming the soap is made with a typical hot or cold process method.

This means the amount of PT in Grandpa's PT soap is probably no higher than 9%. If you believe the glowing testimonials for this product, this amount of PT works wonders for many people.

So, Zany, can you shed some enlightenment on this matter -- why is 20% measurably better than 10% or 5%?

 

[Zany_in_CO]

So, Zany, can you shed some enlightenment on this matter -- why is 20% measurably better than 10% or 5%?

Hey DeeAnna!

I wish I could but did you catch the last part of my post?

The feedback wasn't all that great. Mom's friends were underwhelmed.

 

[DeeAnna]

I did catch that last part, but I didn't know what you meant by that -- your mom and friends might have been underwhelmed with the soap for a lot of reasons, not just that the 20% PT didn't help with their skin issues.

So I gather you're saying you don't recall where the "20% rule" comes from either -- amirite? If so, at least I'm in good company!